Black Cleaver pt. 2

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Fabs457

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Global aura removal is still happening, right?

I think the % armor penetration could say the same if it doesn't stack upon itself with gb/brut/another bc. Tanks should be more functionable (as well as armor in general), but we won't totally shift back to the armor stacking meta from before.


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ohdatLass

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

That's be good for the BC itself. Honestly the thing that needs to happen is the %pen only works for yourself.

BC's %pen is worth at least twice as much as LW's(assuming there are two ad people. Pretty safe to assume) and that's the real issue that'll have to be looked at when the silly BC stacking is stopped.


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Grantson

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Wow, still not used to getting Dominion's forums opinion heard.

Yep~ it looks good. Thumbs up for you, thanks for working actively with us.

With the global penetration removed, dominion games would reflect late game SR better so it actually works well. Most of the physical damage skills scale higher then magic skills so we probably should stick with this change then wait til next next patch (2-4 weeks later) to decide if the change was too harsh.


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zJuicy

Junior Member

12-07-2012

Yep keep it!


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Krampus Claus

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

whatever you do, don't balance an SR item for dominion. This is like the gunblade nerf from a year ago because jax and akali were gunblade stacking and dominating dominion.

Change the global passive to compensate, at most make the passive unique, but don't design a single item to make AD casters stronger on SR, and then nerf it to balance for dominion. Most of us haven't touched dominion in nearly a year, and would be pretty peeved if you started messing with our gear because it's proving problematic in an already poorly balanced map.

If it's that big of a problem, just remove BC from dominion and make a dominion item only with the appropriate stats.


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blackDAILO

Senior Member

12-07-2012

If Brutalizer cannot be stacked with BC and Ghostblade, nerfing the flat pen of those items from 15 to 10 would be too much.

The flat pens should be able to stack, but the passives on the Black Cleavers should be unique.


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Mathemagically

Member

12-07-2012

Make all effects unique, reduce the damage from 50 to 45 and change armor reduction to penetration. The problem is not because the AD casters are killing tanks too quickly by themselves(because honestly, as of right now, there is no AD caster that can burst down even a bruiser in one salvo), but because with the reduction tanks are succumbing to focus fire.

The damage amplification from armor reduction is just massive, basically a mini vlad ulti.


Or maybe we are all wrong maybe BC is fine and role of tank is changing. Just having a lot of armor no longer make you a tank, but having a defensive skillset does.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Meh, just pay attention to the fact that you removed the global pen aura. Mathwise, these changes will work out to every AD caster (who goes Ghostblade/LW/mebe+1Brutalizer pathway) actually getting nerfed in Dominion against anyone with more than 1 armor item in exchange of a 5-10% damage boost against people who don't build armor (or build minimal armor) with equal items to the pre-preseason 3 patch.

That's a fancy way of saying no AD caster will ever build Ghostblade over the Black Cleaver unless their life depends on auto attacks in more ways than one. But then, why get Ghostblade when you can grab BC/LW and just take Sword of the Divine instead to actually make your autos megahurt?

The overall changes are still probably a net buff to AD casters because of other items, more expensive armor, and greater firepower available to AP (i.e. bruisers needing more than a single Hexmaw to ignore AP), but I don't like the idea of Ghostblade pathway being marginalized out of existence. It's bad enough that it is probably weaker relative to other builds current, no need to actually make it weaker than pre-preseason 3.


You removed the global pen aura.
Be careful because changes that result in relative buffs on SR, where such aura doesn't exist, may result in no changes or even nerfs in Dom where such an aura existed and got removed.


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Alright, let's try this again.

Hypothetically, if... (ALL OF THE FOLLOWING HAPPENED)
1. Brutalizer's flat armor penetration did not stack with Black Cleaver or Ghostblade...
2. Black Cleaver's percent armor penetration were slightly nerfed...
3. And Brutalizer and BC's flat armor penetration are nerfed from 15 to 10...

Would it be OK to keep Black Cleaver on Dominion? Opinions, now!
Well, they've said that BC is too strong on live right now. Why not just take the nerfs they make there and apply them to dominion?


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hotfire

Senior Member

12-07-2012

yes, maybe just 1. Is 2 related to the aura? is that still getting removed?


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