Lux just a bit too stronge?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mradr

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Does anyone seem to think that Lux seems a bit too stronge? Not saying we shouldn't reward her skill shots, but her ulti seem a bit stronge for the skill with the super long range. For example, her abilitys allow her to escape as they are both super long range and her snare ability keeps them from reaching her as fast. Then her ult still allows her to be in the back (low or high health doesn't matter) to deal 40sec dmg. Even then, if the attacker gets too close to he liking, she can just cast her shield on her self to take a bit less dmg to finally get to w/e she needs to go to be safe. Nothing like a glass cannon like the other mid champs. She also doesn't fall off like LeBlance does in late game for having that up front power.

I feel a numbers change needs to given to her in the terms of how long the snare last or the cool down to her ult. Instead of "Range: 3000 Cooldown: 80 / 60 / 40 Cost: 100 Mana", let it be "Range: 3000 Cooldown: 80 / 70 / 50 Cost: 100 Mana"

Our friend would easy destory mid players higher elo than he was. Maybe not in the laneing phase, but he would in the group phase.

Yes.. .for laning it's fine. I am not saying her laning it bad.. that's why I say she's not over power, but that ult is nuts in the group phase. It's not a skill shot by any means for the damage... but I also don't feel like nerfing that dmg is right either.. It's the group phase that worrys me about her ult. That's why I think increasing the ulti it self for group phase would would fix it her.

Trying not to ask for a whole lot on the change as she's not that stronge, but it would be nice to have her numbers more in line to help balance her out a bit. As of right now, you can cast her ult at the start of a team fight, then after the fight cast it again. Raising the CD another 20sec make sure the other players have some time to escape. The other nerf would allow her to be jumped a least making her early game bit more reasonable for her scaling in the later game.

Let me get this out, I am not saying to touch any of her skill shots, just her ult timer if anything.
Skillshots or not fast nor are they easy... that's what makes a skillshot a skillshot. Skillshots are also not point in click either ... for example, Soraka heal isn't a skill shot btw.
Both points that her ulti is range and is a skillshot doesn't matter if it has a hit wide range with a short CD. Again, she's a long range burst mage, not a battle hellion xD


If on the other you do feel that a skill shot shouldn't be on a long timer... then why are we not buffing some of the skill shots found on on other champs?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jamaree

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Yeah, because skillshots shouldn't be rewarding at all....wait.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Soferir

Senior Member

12-07-2012

The problem with long range is LANDING the things at the range, they're called skillshots for a reason. Get the new boot enchant for more movement speed, that should help out on dodging her skillshots. If she misses them, all her damage is gone, as she is 100% skillshots on her damaging abilities. As long as you dodge the skillshot it can't hurt you.

Nidalee can do practically the same thing with her spear, on a much lower CD, excluding the inability to hit multiple people with the spear. A max range Nidalee spear, going off of its base 230 damage X 2.5 for max range multiplier, does 575 damage. In addition, at max range, its AP damage ratio goes up to about a 1.6, more than double the .75 ratio on Lux's ult. One lucky nidalee spear can out damage lux's ult on one person. In addition, Nidalee's spear has a 6 second CD compared to Lux's 40 second CD, this is if no CDR is built, which means in the amount of time that it takes for Lux's ult to come off CD after being fired, Nidalee has thrown about 6 spears in that time. 3450 damage if she lands them all. Max base damage on Lux's ult is 2500, IF she gets lucky enough to hit everyone on the enemy team. If Lux's misses she doesn't have it for 40 seconds, if Nidalee misses, no problem, just pounce away if they get too close, and throw a spear again in 6 seconds.

Now lets give them each a Rabadon's Deathcap. 150 AP about. Lux gets 112 bonus damage. Nidalee gets about 240 bonus damage per spear. Lux will do 612 damage per person hit, Nidalee at max range will do about 815 damage. Now Lux HAS to land hers on as much people as possible, a miss means its gone for the next 40 seconds. While Nidalee can just keep chucking spears because 6 second CD, missing won't hurt her at all pretty much.

Now say they each get Rabadon's + Rylai's + ROA + DFG + Zhonya's. 600 AP total, not counting any CDR. Now Nidalee's is MUCH stronger than Lux's ult. 575 + 960 (600 X 1.6) = 1535 damage at max range. Compared to 950 on Lux's ult. Now these are EXTREME late game builds but Nidalee still pulls out ahead. 2 Successful Nidalee spears is equivalent to hitting 3 people with Lux's ult. Landing 4 of the 6 spears you can chuck during that time is 1000 more damage than if Lux tagged the entire enemy team. Landing ALL of the spears is just 1000 shy of being double the amount of damage of Lux hitting everyone on the enemy team. Now this isn't counting any of the champion's other abilities, this is just an comparison for just those 2 abilities. Nidalee's spear outdoes Lux's ult on single target, and is not as punishing for missing, as you can abuse pounce to wait for the CD and chuck more. Lux only has one shot per 40 seconds, and missing is much more disastrous for her than it is for Nidalee.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mradr

Senior Member

12-07-2012

I agree that skill shots should be rewarded... but how much do they reward for landing it is always in question. Lucky I don't think her skill shots are that bad. None of the nerf I propose actully hurt her dps mainly just touch the ult cd. The ulti it self is perty easy to land also as it fast (any lag also adds to its speed, unlike Nid spare is slow and easy to notice) and it's quite wide with the range to boot.


Again, it's about her ulti not her other skills really:
1) Lux ult at the start... doesn't cus a team fight off right and only catches manybe 2-3 people.
2) The other team regorups and repositions (lets say 10secs)
3) Team fight happens, lux does all her stuff and moves back after a while (lets say 15-20secs)
4) The other team kinda of wins but everyone pulls back out (with low health) By this point lux also has some CDR from items making up at least for 5-10secs.
5 Lux ults again killing everyone else as the dps on it really high all up front (not like Nid if they are in front of her at least).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mradr View Post
I agree that skill shots should be rewarded... but how much do they really need to be rewarded? None of the nerf actully hurt the dps mainly just toch the ult cd.
skillshots are typically rewarded with either utility or range, not just raw damage.

This is the case with lux.

Lux is not that strong but is spammy with good range. There's nothing wrong with her. Keep in mind though that she is a support mage with only 3 offensive abilities and a nice passive that only works if she autoattacks you.

Dont forget to dodge skillshots


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ADeadManatee

Junior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaree View Post
Yeah, because skillshots shouldn't be rewarding at all....wait.
Now, ignoring OP's point entirely, I have to ask.
Did you even read this post?

Lux's ultimate barely qualifies as a skillshot in the context you're referring to.
Its width covers almost half of a lane and it can easily hit multiple champions from a safe distance while on a very short cooldown.
There is little skill required to make it worth the cost.
I'm not entirely certain whether it should be nerfed or not, but it is undeniably strong, especially considering that no Lux player will actually have a 40 second cooldown.
It's usually 25-30 with some decent CDR.

Its damage potential is quite high for an ability you can cast so frequently.

My point is that your comment seems almost entirely irrelevant, and I question why you even wrote it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zombiemaster

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mradr View Post
As of right now, you can cast her ult at the start of a team fight, then after the fight cast it again.
If you let the fight last long enough, yes she can. However, most teamfights don't last that long. At rank 3 with max CDR, her ult is on a 24 sec cooldown, so by the time she is able to use it a second time, the winner of the teamfight will have already been decided, so it doesn't really matter that she can use it again.

Next time you lose to a champion that gets fed, how about you try and learn how to play against them instead of coming onto the forums to suggest nerfs.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ADeadManatee

Junior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soferir View Post
The problem with long range is LANDING the things at the range, they're called skillshots for a reason. Get the new boot enchant for more movement speed, that should help out on dodging her skillshots. If she misses them, all her damage is gone, as she is 100% skillshots on her damaging abilities. As long as you dodge the skillshot it can't hurt you.

Nidalee can do practically the same thing with her spear, on a much lower CD, excluding the inability to hit multiple people with the spear. A max range Nidalee spear, going off of its base 230 damage X 2.5 for max range multiplier, does 575 damage. In addition, at max range, its AP damage ratio goes up to about a 1.6, more than double the .75 ratio on Lux's ult. One lucky nidalee spear can out damage lux's ult on one person. In addition, Nidalee's spear has a 6 second CD compared to Lux's 40 second CD, this is if no CDR is built, which means in the amount of time that it takes for Lux's ult to come off CD after being fired, Nidalee has thrown about 6 spears in that time. 3450 damage if she lands them all. Max base damage on Lux's ult is 2500, IF she gets lucky enough to hit everyone on the enemy team. If Lux's misses she doesn't have it for 40 seconds, if Nidalee misses, no problem, just pounce away if they get too close, and throw a spear again in 6 seconds.

Now lets give them each a Rabadon's Deathcap. 150 AP about. Lux gets 112 bonus damage. Nidalee gets about 240 bonus damage per spear. Lux will do 612 damage per person hit, Nidalee at max range will do about 815 damage. Now Lux HAS to land hers on as much people as possible, a miss means its gone for the next 40 seconds. While Nidalee can just keep chucking spears because 6 second CD, missing won't hurt her at all pretty much..
First of all, Nidalee's spear is slow travelling, has a small hitbox, and as you pointed out, is single-target.
Secondly, AP Nidalee is not a particularly valid build in the first place, due to her spears being the only real, sustained use she has, and that only being good while maintaining distance.
She gives up any sort of decent dueling or sustained damage by building AP.

Now, looking at Lux, she has 3 other abilities, one is a decent multi-target shield, and the other two deal decent damage and offer good CC at long range.

Neither of these champions are useful in extended teamfights, but Lux's CC and shield make her vastly superior in almost every situation.

Now, looking at Lux's Ultimate itself, while it can be pretty easy to dodge, its width is quite large and the hitbox is a little wonky.
Often-times, players will think they've dodged it but still be hit by the edge of the hitbox (if not the animation).
Now, this is a psychological thing, as several ultimates that are similar (e.g. Ezreal's) are the exact opposite, where standing on the edge often results in a player taking no damage.
Regardless, it needs to be taken into consideration, as perfect reaction speeds and recollection are unlikely "in the heat of battle".

Also, I would like to point out that Lux's ultimate will not be on a 40 second cooldown unless the person playing her has no idea what they're doing.
That sort of thing should be included in the comparison.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jamaree

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADeadManatee View Post
Now, ignoring OP's point entirely, I have to ask.
Did you even read this post?

Lux's ultimate barely qualifies as a skillshot in the context you're referring to.
Its width covers almost half of a lane and it can easily hit multiple champions from a safe distance while on a very short cooldown.
There is little skill required to make it worth the cost.
I'm not entirely certain whether it should be nerfed or not, but it is undeniably strong, especially considering that no Lux player will actually have a 40 second cooldown.
It's usually 25-30 with some decent CDR.

Its damage potential is quite high for an ability you can cast so frequently.

My point is that your comment seems almost entirely irrelevant, and I question why you even wrote it.
I did read, he is still asking for nerfs to a pure skillshot champion, hard to dodge or not, her entire kit revolves around anticipating the moves of her opponents perfectly to land her skills, she should get rewarded for it with the high DPS they provide.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ADeadManatee

Junior Member

12-07-2012

All right, for the sake of comparison, I'm just going to spitball something for you all to consider.
Now, a comparison between the ultimates of Brand and Lux may not be heavily valid, but I'm going to use it just for the sake of getting some numbers out there.

Contrast Brand's ultimate, which has a 75 second base cooldown.
At rank 3, it can do a maximum of 1750 (with 0 AP)
Realistically, his ultimate is not going to do max damage in the right places, as enemy movement, positioning, and other unmanageable factors will determine where it will bounce and who to.
It is slow moving, has a short range, and requires skill (and a bit of luck) in order to execute "properly".

Now, enter Lux.
Her ultimate does 500 damage to each target it hits at rank 3 (assuming that there's no passive to proc, in which case it's 670) on a 40 second base cooldown.
Now, with its width and ease of use, lets assume it hits three enemy champions while they try to CS under a tower.
That's 1500 damage on a 40 or less cooldown, pending mitigation and addition of AP/Mpen.

Hitting all 5, that's 2500 damage just off of base, although I realize this won't always be the case.

Overall, I'd consider Lux's ult much stronger, although I do realize Brand is not held in terribly high esteem atm to begin with.

If any of my facts are wrong I apologize as I didn't check multiple sources while writing this.