mardrads

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Stand Vanguard

Junior Member

12-04-2012

tanks cant be killed anymore without it


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

12-04-2012

1. that just shows how noob you are not knowing how to use the tools available to you and how to counter build

2. the item was replaced by a new item that does similar effect and somewhat a better item over all called the blade of the ruined king


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XxHellHaundxX

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Junior Member

12-05-2012

better item my ass, 4% current CURRENT hp, meaning that decreases as your opponent gets lower, a terrible replacement, may as well have given us kiteas bloodrazor with a lifesteal and an active to make it difficult, oh wait...that is what they did, adc cannot counter tanks as properly anymore without the madreds


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gblast123

Member

12-05-2012

i have to agree that nerfing black cleaver (removing the attack speed bonus) and removing Mad. Bldrazer, was terrible for ADC. I used that combo often and u could see the health of tanks.. with 3000+HP, melt away..

I tried the new items.. and they suck..tanks can kill u quite easily, you have no chance of surviving a team fight, as a low health tank, is .. still a tank.. and if not dead.. will eat u alive.

The madreds/black cleaver combo gave u an extra 70% attack speed, and in combo with the other factors, there is no combo of 2 new items that gives u that for the same price.

ADC's will have little to no effect late game when the other side is a tanky team.

AP's will rule the day.. tanks typically have enough armor to now adequately protect against anything an ADC can throw at them.


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Sangiovese

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Madred's Bloodrazor was also a late game strategic decision for junglers instead of making Wriggle's Lantern.

This decision tree or flexibility to the player is now gone, and that sucks too.

But the Blade of the Ruined King is not nearly as good as Madreds, even if the activated use item is great when you use it, not so great when it's on CD.

I'd rather have the former, than the latter.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Tank shredding is being left to only the AP scaling hybrids, with their scaling malady and gunblade, and spellblade mastery. Bloodrazor was there with attack speed for the sake of leveling the field with tanks, quickly stacking the % hp magic damage that is otherwise underwhelming compared to raw damage on less beefy targets. Old cleaver was a little strong against lower armor targets, and I am ok with the changes to that. It is more useful on bigger tanks, and can use ability damage as well as autoattacks for stacking, so it does not require the speed to get the stacks on in a timely fashion. Blade of the ruined king is just poorly designed. Its best use would be to sustain in a drawn-out harass scenario, but it is too expensive to fit into early laning. It might be good if it built out of madred's as a jungle option, to sustain against and whittle down the big mobs, and have its active to help with ganks. It is not a substitute for bloodrazor, however, and an additional hard counter to HP is much needed.


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Randolph Carter

Junior Member

12-05-2012

Let's say a tank is coming at you with 3000 HP and 50% MR.

4% of 3000 = 120 magic damage on your first hit.

120*.5 = 60 damage after resistance. *.5 = 30 health restore.

This is on your first hit, as the tank's health decreases...

75% HP = 45/22.5
50% HP = 30/15
25% HP = 15/7.5

So yeah, seems pretty weak to me. If it was max health like bloodrazor it might be a decent item.


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gblast123

Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolph Carter View Post
Let's say a tank is coming at you with 3000 HP and 50% MR.

4% of 3000 = 120 magic damage on your first hit.

120*.5 = 60 damage after resistance. *.5 = 30 health restore.

This is on your first hit, as the tank's health decreases...

75% HP = 45/22.5
50% HP = 30/15
25% HP = 15/7.5

So yeah, seems pretty weak to me. If it was max health like bloodrazor it might be a decent item.
Your totally wrong. Madreds Magic damage was calculated on the max health of champ. It DID NOT scale down as health decreased. You are also forgetting about the speed boost, AD damage and armor that it provided.

Attack speed is an AD multiplier.. if u are hitting ur opponent twice as fast as he is, u are doing twice as much damage. Seems simple but most people seem to forget that simple fact.

Look at it this way. PD gave a 55% speed boost (before nerf).. but no AD, no Magic Damage and no armor. Madreds gave a 40% speed boost, but gave 40 AD, about 120 Magic Damage (assume a 3000 HP tank) and armor, to protect you.

I take the Mad. Bldrazer over PD every day, and twice on sunday.

Combine it with the old Black Cleaver. That did 55 AD, but more importantly, it gave ARMOR REDUCTION, of 15 X 3, =45 by the third hit.

That combo, Black Cl and Mad Bldrzr, gave u a total of 95 AD, 120 MD, and 25 armor as well as 70% Attack speed bonus.

Infinity Edge, PD combo (before changes) gives u 80 AD and 55% Attack Speed bonus.
You also get critical strike, which Mad and Blk C don't give u. BUT, u get no armor reduction!!!

but a total of 215 combined damaage and armor, with higher attack speed was better combo, IMHO, esp. with the ARMOR REDUCTION.

So, u lose critical strike but do twice the total damage AT A FASTER SPEED. PER HIT, plus the armor protection u get and the armor reduction u give.

anyone who says Mad Bldrazer was a weak item cannot add.


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Mit213

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by gblast123 View Post
Your totally wrong. Madreds Magic damage was calculated on the max health of champ. It DID NOT scale down as health decreased. You are also forgetting about the speed boost, AD damage and armor that it provided.

Attack speed is an AD multiplier.. if u are hitting ur opponent twice as fast as he is, u are doing twice as much damage. Seems simple but most people seem to forget that simple fact.

Look at it this way. PD gave a 55% speed boost (before nerf).. but no AD, no Magic Damage and no armor. Madreds gave a 40% speed boost, but gave 40 AD, about 120 Magic Damage (assume a 3000 HP tank) and armor, to protect you.

I take the Mad. Bldrazer over PD every day, and twice on sunday.

Combine it with the old Black Cleaver. That did 55 AD, but more importantly, it gave ARMOR REDUCTION, of 15 X 3, =45 by the third hit.

That combo, Black Cl and Mad Bldrzr, gave u a total of 95 AD, 120 MD, and 25 armor as well as 70% Attack speed bonus.

Infinity Edge, PD combo (before changes) gives u 80 AD and 55% Attack Speed bonus.
You also get critical strike, which Mad and Blk C don't give u. BUT, u get no armor reduction!!!

but a total of 215 combined damaage and armor, with higher attack speed was better combo, IMHO, esp. with the ARMOR REDUCTION.

So, u lose critical strike but do twice the total damage AT A FASTER SPEED. PER HIT, plus the armor protection u get and the armor reduction u give.

anyone who says Mad Bldrazer was a weak item cannot add.
You're thinking about this in a completely incorrect way. You can only kill tanks through multipliers, not a bunch of random sources of damage. If you are trying to use Madred's magic damage passive to kill a bruiser, you'd better have a lot of magic pen and attack speed (terrible idea btw), so obviously that isn't the way to go. If you don't have any penetration and a lot of attack speed and attack damage with a Madred's, you're dealing a very small amount of damage due to the mitigation that armor and magic resistance supply. As I said before, the way to kill a bruiser is multipliers, or in other words, having your AD carry that focuses purely on damage, attack speed, critical strike chance & damage, and armor penetration and reduction kill their tankier people. Everyone that is uneducated about this always tries to fight for Madred's, when really, it didn't work at all because the people you bought it to kill had too much magic resistance for it to affect them.


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gblast123

Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit213 View Post
You're thinking about this in a completely incorrect way. You can only kill tanks through multipliers, not a bunch of random sources of damage. If you are trying to use Madred's magic damage passive to kill a bruiser, you'd better have a lot of magic pen and attack speed (terrible idea btw), so obviously that isn't the way to go. If you don't have any penetration and a lot of attack speed and attack damage with a Madred's, you're dealing a very small amount of damage due to the mitigation that armor and magic resistance supply. As I said before, the way to kill a bruiser is multipliers, or in other words, having your AD carry that focuses purely on damage, attack speed, critical strike chance & damage, and armor penetration and reduction kill their tankier people. Everyone that is uneducated about this always tries to fight for Madred's, when really, it didn't work at all because the people you bought it to kill had too much magic resistance for it to affect them.
I love it when people make wild assumptions or pontificate without presenting any facts to back them up.

In my prior post, i gave descrete numbers and examples why the MadBdrzr, Black cleaver combo was far superior to the Inf. Edge/PD combo.. which is the linchpin for any ADC in every posted guide that exists.

Damage is damage.. whether magic or physical damage. Each can be nerfed.. no disagreement there. But a tank cannot nerf both, AND build Health, AND build attack damage all at the same time. In fact, LOL is designed around having to make choices. Giving ADC the capability to deliver both, at high levels, no less, gives tanks some terrible choices.

Furthermore, u only have space for 6 items. if a tank needs to fill an additional slot with magic resist or more armor, then. that is one less item they can fill with more health or attack damage.

Putting boots, 2 of the above items leaves u with 3 slots left.for an ADC.. please show us what u r talking about when u say "multipliers".. please be specific on which items ur referring to. Also, indicate why they would not work with the above two items. In fact, any item that works with IE/PD combo will work with BC/Mad.Bldrazer.
IMHO, there is no grreater multiplier than Attack speed, if there is enough of it.

BTW, it would be most helpful if u could give me a current example of 2 items that dealt more damage, over all, then the combo of the old black cleaver/madred's bldrazer.. but u wont be able to.. i have been looking and it just does not exist for ADC.

I think u should educate urself on the actual numbers before calling other people uneducated.. it is very.. ignorant.. of someone to say that. For example the statement that Madreds didn't work because of magic resistance..is just plain wrong.. ur ignoring the 40 Attack damage and the 40% speed boost which went along with the additional armor it provided. Those work just fine in the face of magic resistance. In fact, the armor gives u an additional level of survivabiltiy.. oh... isn't that considered a multiplier. the abiliity to survive attacks?.. please please please.. educate this poor ignorant fool.. but with facts, not mumbo jumbo with nothing behind it.


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