Select an option:

Keep new TT as it is with altars 119 36.73%
Change new TT altars to buff camps as detailed below 156 48.15%
Remove altars completely from new TT, but with no added buff camps 49 15.12%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

The altars are the problem, solution to fix this map entirely inside

First Riot Post
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Zerglinator

Senior Member

12-05-2012

I hope whatever replaces the Speed Shrine is as thematic as Vilemaw and the Altars. Honestly, which dead guy said "We really need a Speed Shrine in the middle of the woods!"


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Lhyanc

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I'm not convinced that there are any small number of changes that can allow wards to be re-introduced, but we are looking into options. Stay tuned
Cool and I like no wards.


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I'm not convinced that there are any small number of changes that can allow wards to be re-introduced, but we are looking into options. Stay tuned
TT only wards that are effectively reveal dust traps? Large enough trigger radius to cover a path. Enemy champion moving into it makes it pop, destroying the ward and debuffing them with the sight reveal thing.

This way once triggered it needs to be reset. This forces risk as you cannot simply have it up to dodge every incoming gank ever. It can also have a "set up" time to avoid bush face checking which the current dust items are great at.

In fact. Rather then a Ward it could be a map component. Going back to Riot's own idea of capturable lanterns. What about a ghost lantern? A champion caps it and it ignites with ghost fire. When an enemy champion walks into the area it's set, the fire goes out, the wraiths from wraith collar pop out to debuff them (sight reveal only), and the lantern needs time to reset. A 30 second reset time after being triggered, a short duration that doesn't incur that reset time, and an area of effect smaller then LOS to them would be interesting. It would cause an opponent to choose to enter the area. Could also tie ownership to the Altar.

Effectively it accomplishes the big goal of a ward by revealing incoming so you can get aggresive. While avoiding the big danger of providing always up sight where placed.


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davidmcdavid

Member

12-05-2012

so what is going on with the jungle? Will their be camps added top or mid?


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Waverhouse

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Altars suck, get rid of them and make the jungle better. The fact that you guys keep needing to change them up seems to imply that they're just not a good idea.


Also, since it's pretty clear you guys are changing around the map (and since the word Beta is predominantly displayed) why not enable the old TT while you work this **** out?


Oh I forgot that a base of millions of players could not support 2 3's maps because-


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Direwolfzs

Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerDrool View Post
TT only wards that are effectively reveal dust traps? Large enough trigger radius to cover a path. Enemy champion moving into it makes it pop, destroying the ward and debuffing them with the sight reveal thing.

This way once triggered it needs to be reset. This forces risk as you cannot simply have it up to dodge every incoming gank ever. It can also have a "set up" time to avoid bush face checking which the current dust items are great at.

In fact. Rather then a Ward it could be a map component. Going back to Riot's own idea of capturable lanterns. What about a ghost lantern? A champion caps it and it ignites with ghost fire. When an enemy champion walks into the area it's set, the fire goes out, the wraiths from wraith collar pop out to debuff them (sight reveal only), and the lantern needs time to reset. A 30 second reset time after being triggered, a short duration that doesn't incur that reset time, and an area of effect smaller then LOS to them would be interesting. It would cause an opponent to choose to enter the area. Could also tie ownership to the Altar.

Effectively it accomplishes the big goal of a ward by revealing incoming so you can get aggresive. While avoiding the big danger of providing always up sight where placed.
I like this idea a lot actually o.o


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Over the next few patches, we're going to be implementing a series of changes that should address some of the points you've listed.

If all goes well, 1.73 should allow for altar captures to be interrupted temporarily by damage. This will allow ranged champions to stop captures without putting themselves in danger. Note that this will primarily address 1v1 or 1v2 situations in which the "1" feels helpless; in larger teamfights, it'll just mean you have to dedicate one or two players to stop the harassment.

1.74+ will see the removal of speed shrine, replacing it with something to be decided. Additional evolution of altar capture rules and rewards will occur as well. I'm not convinced that there are any small number of changes that can allow wards to be re-introduced, but we are looking into options. Stay tuned
Riot Nome,

I really appreciate your response. I have been trying to get a red to reply to a post for a good while, and I 'm really glad you guys are being receptive. To further expand on my point, I have been thinking more about it since I posted and what I've realized is that the altars just take up way too much space on each side of the map. When it comes down to it, all the space devoted to the altars make capturing the altars the focus of the map, not pushing the nexus. It's like the altars are a mini game with in the game, a big distraction. I just think that all that space could be put to better use, i.e. the C buff camps. Additionally, regardless of the other aspects of the game it would make better, my solution would make the map considerably more visually appealing with the addition of the extra walls and brush, filling in that large visual void that the altars currently take up on both sides and more interesting to play overall.

As mentioned in another response, quite a few of the "hardcore" TT players have completely stopped playing the new map. Having some of the best players on the map leave is the opposite of making the map a more competitive place. As you guys mentioned in previous posts, all of these changes that lead to the creation of the new map were directly aimed at stimulating the competitive twisted treeline environment. When the changes you have made force top players to to stop playing, there is definitely something wrong. Please, seriously consider these changes or better yet try them out yourself. As you know, I'm a purest when it comes to 3s game play and I see you were also diamond s2. I think once you try these changes and play test them you will agree that they make the map better overall, and make the new map truly twisted treeline.

I look forward to trying your tweaks to the altars as mentioned in your post. They definitely sound like they will alleviate some of the issues with the altars game play, but in the end the altars will still be there and still be a problem.


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Ange1Fr0mHe11

Junior Member

12-05-2012

I like the altars, but one problem with the map is that it has no lv1 objectives. On the old map you could take camps or invade, but on new TT it's bloodbath or nothing for the first ~2 minutes. Since I think we can all agree the speed shrine is useless, it would be nice to have it replaced with some kind of level 1 objective.


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Reynmaker

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

On the ward thing, I don't know how badly map unaware you have to be, to get caught out on a 2 lane map. If you haven't heard: 'AN ENEMY HAS BEEN KILLED' three times, and you're somewhere around their turret and you can't see any of the enemy team on the map.........chances are you overextended and are about to die.

You literally just have to watch the minimap.


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davidmcdavid

Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynmaker View Post
On the ward thing, I don't know how badly map unaware you have to be, to get caught out on a 2 lane map. If you haven't heard: 'AN ENEMY HAS BEEN KILLED' three times, and you're somewhere around their turret and you can't see any of the enemy team on the map.........chances are you overextended and are about to die.

You literally just have to watch the minimap.
so we have to assume that every time there is an mia that they are coming to gank us? What about full time junglers that are always mia? We have to get exp and gold from the minions, we cant spend the whole game under the turret if there is an mia as you would have us do. please think before you post next time.


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