Blackfire's torch just needs to be removed. period.

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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBerry88 View Post
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blackfire_Torch

It's maximum health as of the recent update. Before the update it wasnt OP, now it is. This is what everyone is complaining about. I wish people would do their homework.

OK True Damage....


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0ur0boros

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
OK True Damage....
That tool tip is very misleading....if you had ever read it.

Unique Passive: Your spells burn for an additional 5% of the target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 3 seconds.

How can it be 5% if it can be mitigated? It HAS to be true damage in order for it to be % based damage.


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBerry88 View Post
That tool tip is very misleading....if you had ever read it.

Unique Passive: Your spells burn for an additional 5% of the target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 3 seconds.

How can it be 5% if it can be mitigated? It HAS to be true damage in order for it to be % based damage.
Dude, you have to admit it was ironic. I mean c'mon... I aint even mad or anything it's just funny. Yes, I was wrong about the change to %max HP, but in all fairness my info was a couple of weeks old, and it was correct at one point. You not only JUST looked at tthe description, you went on to quote it for me -_-

Also, Madreds and Kog and J4 and a few other items/champs I can't think of ATM do %hp damage and it is widely known that the damage can be mitigated as well.

Have a great day!


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Snoop Nome

Game Designer

12-03-2012
1 of 1 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBerry88 View Post
That tool tip is very misleading....if you had ever read it.

Unique Passive: Your spells burn for an additional 5% of the target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 3 seconds.

How can it be 5% if it can be mitigated? It HAS to be true damage in order for it to be % based damage.
Kog'Maw's isn't true damage; neither is Eve's or DFG. It just means you're taking 0.05 * Max * (1 - mitigation).


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0ur0boros

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Alright then, I just want to add that I only pulled up that information to prove a point. I also actually only proved myself correct.

So let me address your last point.

Quote:
Also, Madreds and Kog and J4 and a few other items/champs I can't think of ATM do %hp damage and it is widely known that the damage can be mitigated as well.
Kog's W scales off of AP. Meaning that it will do % damage (true damage) in addition a % of AP. You can counter the AP portion, NOT the % hp portion, unless you stack health.

As for J4, I assume you're referring to his passive. His passive caps at 400 max dmg. It is only for the first time you attack a target, and it can only occur once every 6 seconds.

Jarvan IV's first attack on a target deals 6 / 8 / 10 % of the target's current health as bonus physical damage. This caps at 400 damage. This effect cannot occur on the same target for 6 seconds.


Either way, this is no where near the amount of threat a Blackfire Torch can put out. Blackfire Torch's passive resets any time you take damage, including DoT abilities, for the entire duration of the ability. So that 5% damage could actually be something like 10-20% of someone's health. It is not inhibited by AoE abilities either. So in theory, if a Singed had this item he could deal maybe this amount of true damage to your whole team. The only other champions in which it may be an issue is Cassiopeia, Brand, and Teemo, or any AoE mage really. But the reason why it is not a problem for them? They're not tanks. Tanks are hard to kill. He can pump out this kind of damage, while not being hindered in any way.

I'd also like to point that this item also adds Magic Penetration. Another item that can be deadly on a champion like Singed.


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Ronnie Law

Senior Member

12-03-2012

You don't understand what true damage is man.
True damage is just damage that cannot be mitigated.

Say your target has 1000 Maximum HP and you damage them for 10% of their Maximum HP.
Then you would do 100 damage.

Lets then say that 100 damage dealt is Magic Damage and your target has 100 Magic Resist (50% Damage Reduction from Magic Damage)
Then your target would take 50 (50% of 100%) Magic Damage.

While you DEALT 10% Max HP in damage, after mitigation they only RECEIVED 5% Max HP in damage.
Percentile damage is NOT inherently True Damage.

For clarity, True Damage cannot be reduced by Armor or Magic Resistance.
Physical Damage is ALWAYS mitigated by Armor and Magic Damage is ALWAYS mitigated by Magic Resistance.


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Lorthix

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBerry88 View Post
Can we cut the ****? you're never going to balance an item that does true damage per tick. Never. Just stop wasting all of our time and patience and remove that item now. It's getting a little ridiculous. Everyone and ****in mother is building that item.
It doesn't do true damage per tick, it does magic damage. Which can be mitigated. Should look stuff up before you spout nonsense


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Goldoak

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBerry88 View Post
Kog's W scales off of AP. Meaning that it will do % damage (true damage) in addition a % of AP. You can counter the AP portion, NOT the % hp portion, unless you stack health.
That isn't what Kog's W does at all. It adds a percentage of the target's health in magic damage to each attack. The AP ratio on the skill doesn't add flat damage, it increases the percentage. It's all still magic damage and all still subject to mitigation.

To clarify, the process is this:

1. Kog hits W, autoattacks target.
2. Kog's W checks the target's health and calculates the magic damage it should add, based on the skills base percentage+1 for every 100 AP Kog has.
3. That magic damage is reduced by the target's MR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBerry88 View Post
Either way, this is no where near the amount of threat a Blackfire Torch can put out. Blackfire Torch's passive resets any time you take damage, including DoT abilities, for the entire duration of the ability. So that 5% damage could actually be something like 10-20% of someone's health. It is not inhibited by AoE abilities either. So in theory, if a Singed had this item he could deal maybe this amount of true damage to your whole team. The only other champions in which it may be an issue is Cassiopeia, Brand, and Teemo, or any AoE mage really. But the reason why it is not a problem for them? They're not tanks. Tanks are hard to kill. He can pump out this kind of damage, while not being hindered in any way.
BFT doesn't deal true damage. Like Kog's W above, it calculates the damage it deals based on the targets' maximum health, and then that damage is decreased by the targets' magic resistance.


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0ur0boros

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorthix View Post
It doesn't do true damage per tick, it does magic damage. Which can be mitigated. Should look stuff up before you spout nonsense
Did you even read the rest of the posts before you rushed in here to insult me? We've moved past this and now we're debating key points.


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Ronnie Law

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBerry88 View Post
Did you even read the rest of the posts before you rushed in here to insult me? We've moved past this and now we're debating key points.
Except you are making false assumptions, which makes it really hard to have a serious conversation with you.
You want US to understand your argument, but you are not understanding the factors of the discussion, or the counter argument.

Take a step back and COMPREHEND what people are telling you.