Double IP first game reset timer.

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Nexus

Junior Member

11-29-2012

Thanks for the reply I was just suggesting a similar system used in WOW with their dailies which I think worked well.

I didn't know it was 22 hrs but still I rather just get my bonus the same time every day like 5-8 pm regardless of the errands I had to do that day that made me play a game at 11 pm.

In the end its just IP and as they say "If it ain't broke don't fix it".


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Skaithak

Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
Let's do some comparison of these two systems:
What is the max possible number of “first win of the day” bonus a player can get if they play every day for 100 days using existing system? 109
What is the max possible number of “first win of the day” bonus a player can get if they play every day for 100 days using your system? 100

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if the player always play at 11 PM every day, then the bonus reset schedule will be at the following time:

day 01 - 11 PM
day 02 - 9 PM
day 03 - 7 PM
day 04 - 5 PM
day 05 - 3 PM
day 06 - 1 PM
day 07 - 11 AM
day 08 - 9 AM
day 09 - 7 AM
day 10 - 5 AM
day 11 - 3 AM
day 12 - 1 AM
day 13 - 11 PM
total number of first win of the day the player will get: 13 (or 12, depends on when server deploys we do a reset or not)

If we use the system you suggested, the bonus schedule will reset at the following time:
day 01 - 12 AM
day 02 - 12 AM
day 03 - 12 AM
day 04 - 12 AM
day 05 - 12 AM
day 06 - 12 AM
day 07 - 12 AM
day 08 - 12 AM
day 09 - 12 AM
day 10 - 12 AM
day 11 - 12 AM
day 12 - 12 AM
day 13 - 12 AM
total number of first win of the day the player will get: 13 (or 12, depends on when server deploys we do a reset or not)

I guess if you have time you can do an analysis on what the bonus reset schedule for odd alternating play hours. I do not think it will provide significant benefit over the existing system if you take majority of players' playing time into consideration.
let me know if I made any errors in my calculation, since I rarely do math at 2 AM in the morning.
That is some horrible thinking.

If a player plays at 11pm every day, then he will always have the first win of the day come available 22 hours after his 11pm match finishes. If the match took, say, 30 minutes, this bonus will then become available at 9.30pm.

If he plays his first game at exactly 11pm every day, he will never improve beyond the midnight.

Day 1: Game finishes at 11.30pm. Reset time for the bonus is 9.30pm.
Day 2: Game finishes at 11.30pm. Reset time is, again, 9.30pm.
Day 3: The same again, and so on and so forth.

This is exactly the same as scenario 2 (midnight reset) for this player - except that in scenario 2, if he plays a second game at 11.35pm, finishing at 12.05am, he manages to secure the win of the day bonus for the next day already, and can effectively take a night off.

Now, if that player was able to play at any time, regardless of whether it's the middle of the day or the middle of the night, then your argument is correct, and he would be able to get one extra win of the day per 12 days.

However, let's now say that the player can only ever fit one win in on Fridays. He has school/uni/work all day, and other commitments that night such as work or girlfriend duty, and knows he will only get one game in the morning.

Whether he gets the bonus under the 22 hour reset is very hit and miss - he might get it one day if he managed to get that bonus at the exact right time the day before. Yet if it reset at midnight, he would get that win of the day bonus every time, or if he doesn't get home before midnight, he could play that game the previous day and make up for an inactive day.

Yes, the optimal scenario is better, but no-one gets up at 3am to play LoL in order to maximize their IP win bonus efficiency, and a midnight reset fits in far more realistically with varying schedules.

TL;DR Your analysis was borked, and you are incorrect to assume variance in playing schedule has no effect on which scenario is better.


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Skaithak

Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosBloodterfly View Post
Also, why not just, "game of the day"? Why does it have to be a win.
Also, this. I will regularly play a Bot-stomp match because my play time is limited (and bots games are fast), I don't want to get stressed out before I sleep, and I still need my win at the end of the night. I don't like bots games, and feel almost ashamed to play them, but when I can only fit in two games a night and the first one is a loss, I'd far rather guarantee my IP bonus.


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Xepel

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11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
I guess if you have time you can do an analysis on what the bonus reset schedule for odd alternating play hours. I do not think it will provide significant benefit over the existing system if you take majority of players' playing time into consideration.
let me know if I made any errors in my calculation, since I rarely do math at 2 AM in the morning.
I think the the 22 hour FWotD timer is flawed, but think that there is a better option than "just midnight" as a reset time.

Currently, you are awarded a 150 point IP boost for your “First Win of the Day,” which is calculated as any time after 22 hours after your previous win. There are many problems with this, however. The main problem is that you only have a two hour window in which to get your FWotD before this window of time starts to slide later in the day. This assumes that people have a very rigid and reliable LoL playing window every day. Unfortunately, I do not believe this to be the case for most people, including myself.

Consider several different types of individuals who have different windows of play.

The first is the Consistent Gamer, the only type who the current timer appeals to. He plays for two hours every day (Monday-Sunday) from 7-9pm, and never misses this window nor plays at a different time. As long as he gets a win during this window, he is certain to get another chance for his FWotD the next day. There is never a time where he can play a day and *not* have at least a chance to get his FWotD.

The second type is the Weekender. He plays every day, but his schedule is different Sunday-Thursday and Friday/Saturday. During work nights, he manages to get his two hour block in from 7-9pm before bed, as he has work in the morning. During the weekends, however, he goes out with friends most evenings, and so doesn’t get his LoL time until Midnight-2 AM. Even if he wins at least one time during each block of LoL time, he *cannot* get his FWotD bonus on Sunday. The timer makes it such that he must be asleep by the time the timer resets, and so he loses out on 150 IP.

The third type is the Randomizer. She plays ever day, but due to classes and her part time job scheduling her differently every day, her two hour block is at a random time every day. Sometimes she manages to get in two hours before bed, at 10-Midnight. Sometimes she only gets time before class in the morning, from 6-8 AM. The chances of her even having the *possibility* of getting her FWotD on two consecutive days are very low, as she would have to randomly have the same block of time *or later.* However, if she ever has a “late block” (such as the 10-Midnight block) of LoL, the chance that her block of time the next day will be that time or later is extremely slim. Even though she technically plays (and most likely gets at least one win) every day, it will be impossible for her to get the FWotD bonus a little less than half of her days.

The last type is the Professional. She plays 10 hours of games every day at around the same time. While it is very possible for this person to get many, many wins during her day, a series of unlikely events could cause her to miss her FWotD bonus. If she ever has a losing streak during the first 2 hour FWotD window after the 22 hour reset time, that window moves later and later in the day. Eventually it’s possible that she needs to get her “first win of the day” in the last hour of her 10 hours of gaming, and, if she doesn’t win during that specific time, even 10 hours a day of gaming isn’t enough for a FWotD.

I am personally more of a Randomizer. Sometimes I don’t get to play until midnight or later. When I do so, I know that there will be a day very soon where I won’t get my FWotD simply because I can’t stay up late enough, even if I could play (and win) a few games earlier in the day. I end up missing quite a few FWotD even when I do play all day.

My solution:
Instead of a flat 22 hour timer, FWotD should be determined by “8 hours after your last win *or* 4 AM Pacific (for NA server), whichever is later.”

Why?
First of all, I needed the “day” of FWotD to change at some point, and 4 AM seemed reasonable. I know a lot of people stay up late to play games, and 2 AM on a Sunday morning really ‘feels’ like it should count as Saturday, considering you haven’t gone to sleep yet. 4 AM puts it in the dead of night, likely at a lull in the servers, and seemed to me to be a good day-change point. This could be changed easily if Riot has better data on when the best day-change could be.

Now, the major argument against a specific time for when FWotD resets is that people could just play during that time and get two FWotD in a row. If, for example, the reset was at midnight, someone could stay up late Monday night and get FWotD (Monday) at 11:30 PM and FWotD (Tuesday) at midnight. Then you wouldn’t even need to play at all on Tuesday and you would have still received a bonus. This does not promote what Riot wants - you actually *haven’t* played every day - and so does not deserve a reward.

Because of this, there is an 8 hour minimum timer on FWotD. This feels correct to me, as 8 hours is enough for a good night’s rest in between gaming sessions. To me, the “new day” starts after sleeping, and so it makes sense that your FWotD resets in that time. In concert, the specific reset time (4 AM) stops people from getting multiple FWotD in a single calendar day, while the 8 hour minimum timer allows people to play at different times during different days and still get their FWotD.

How this affects our individuals:
The Consistent Gamer still gets his FWotD consistently as always. No change.
The Weekender now gets his Sunday night FWotD (as it reset at 10 AM instead of past midnight). Positive change.
The Randomizer now gets her FWotD every day (as it reset while she was sleeping, no matter when she played last). Positive change.
The Professional can’t help but get her FWotD every day (as the reset time doesn’t “drift” later in the day). Positive change.

But Xepel, wont the 8 hour *or* 4 AM reset be confusing to people? I don’t think so. Already the FWotD timer drifts from day to day, and it is more confusing than this system; people currently have to rely on the in-game timer to determine when their FWotD is up. Under my system, as long as you have slept since your last FWotD, your next FWotD is ready. Simple!

Riot, please change the FWotD timer such that more people can get the FWotD bonus they deserve!


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ongelvin

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
Let's do some comparison of these two systems:
What is the max possible number of “first win of the day” bonus a player can get if they play every day for 100 days using existing system? 109
What is the max possible number of “first win of the day” bonus a player can get if they play every day for 100 days using your system? 100
Adjust the amount of IP from the First Win Bonus to match it. Midnight resets with 163.6363...IP bonus gives you equal potential maximums. When it comes to practical maximums, players are unlikely to end a game exactly on the dot of the 22 hour reset, meaning you waste several minutes regardless. Setting it at 24 hours actually lets you hit that theoretical cap; in which case I would advocate a 165 IP payout, just to keep it a nice multiple of 5. But even at 160 IP, I think that lost 3.63 IP would be a negligible loss, comparable to finishing several minutes after the 22 hour rollover.


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Hearteater

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Recruiter

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
How did you come up with this number?
I don't know how he came up with it, but this change would benefit me EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND. See, sometimes I like to do stuff on the weekend. At night. But during the week, I'm at work. So as you can imagine, I play LoL in the evening during the week, but on the weekend the mornings are better. At present, if I want to have a life, I'll lose out on a WOTD bonus every Saturday, because though I can play in the morning, I'll rarely be able to in the evening. Then I'll get my WOTD on Sunday morning and 36 or so hours later I'll be going for my WOTD again Monday night.

So, if I were to play 100 days, with the 22-hour reset, I get 86 WOTD bonuses. With a fixed time reset, I get 100 WOTD bonuses. In short, I lose 7800 IP per year, enough for one Champion. You release around 20ish Champions a year, so I'm losing out on around 5% of the yearly Champion content.

In fact, the only people a 22-hour reset benefit are power gamers. If this system is at all supposed to benefit casual players, you are doing it wrong.


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Abbx

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
How did you come up with this number?
Not everyone prefers this method though. I personally like getting my win of the days early, but sometimes I just can't. Yesterday, I got mine at 11 PM so I need to wait til 9 PM. If we had at least an option of the reset system, I could of hopped on and got it now. I'm not someone hardcore enough to time my win of the days and maximize them.


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Torenia

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Resetting at midnight gives more ease in obtaining fwotd instead of having to wait until the time comes especially if its a busy week(s) and can only do fwotd at best (which hopefully will be at a good time @_@ will feel constrained sometimes to wait for that time to do it)


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Thalandor46

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Between the two, I'd personally prefer a midnight system, although I like some of the ideas proposed in this thread. I play LoL just about every day, even if it's just a bot game to get first win. My lunch break is usually a good opportunity to grab my first win, but if I decide to do anything else with my lunch on Monday, then the option is thrown out the window for the rest of the week. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it feels like a scenario that could certainly be improved.


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Stexe

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11-29-2012

I used to be of the opinion that resetting at midnight (or some specific time) was best (you can probably find very old threads where I talked about it). However, I feel now that the current system is better overall.

The only advantage of re-setting at a specific time is to proc both FWotD bonuses back to back and then not play for a day. That's beneficial if you can play at that specific time and not for the rest of the day. However, most people would not be able to use that tactic to get FWotD bonuses easier. Therefore, the current system is much more flexible and allows greater freedom in deciding when you want to get your FWotD bonus.

Yes, missing your FWotD because you can only play at a time less than 22 hours after your previous win might mess up a schedule... but even then is it really "another day" from your first win?