You cant be serious about this ban

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ZeroKuno

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post

We think you can be a competitive minded person and not be a jerk. Outside the video game industry I think it's called "good sportsmanship".
You know I have to say that a lot of streamers are being jerks outside the game and practice it on stream. They are passively enforcing the "being a jerk" by saying how bad this player is or any implications of them being bad. Players that watch the "pros" on stream with that attitude influence a lot of players and instill bad behavior.

I mean seriously the reason why there are so many people behaving like this is because they think it's acceptable what the "pros" say and do.

You guys should start tackling the "pros". One of my friends was recently in a game with Crs Elementz and his experience was that Elementz was a jerk and the funny part is that he was streaming it at the same time.

People can't see what they do wrong if the "pros" do it and we all know by now that they see it differently from the community. It's like they are the "competitive group" leading by example.


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RoflMyPancakes

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Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
[COLOR="Red"]Don't be a jerk.[/COLOR]

Players frequently write to my team full of excuses for their case, or fearful that they're going to get banned in the future.

They often want to debate the Summoner's Code down point by point.

Is it okay to do this? What about that? What if someone else does X, and I do Y to them in retaliation? Can I get banned for Z?

And our response can always be summed up with one simple phrase:

[COLOR="red"]Don't be a jerk[/COLOR]


Sometimes player's ask why isn't the Summoner's Code more specific? Why doesn't it specify each and every action I can or can't do? But they don't notice that we wrote the Code that way on purpose.

We don't want to run a game dictated by strict specific rules. Because every game is unique, and played by different standards.


How much fun would a rule be that says you can never say the F word in your matches?

How much fun would a rule be that says last pick must always be support?

How much fun would a rule say that you can never be Rammus support because he's not considered "optimal" by the community?


Every game should be judged by its own context. And that's why the core rule is always:

[COLOR="red"]Don't be a jerk.[/COLOR]


You can say the F word in a friendly context:



You can also say it in a very toxic context:




---The key difference? [COLOR="Red"]Don't be a jerk[/COLOR]


Sometimes it makes sense for last pick to be something besides support:


Sometimes the situation can be very toxic:



---The key difference? [COLOR="Red"]Don't be a jerk[/COLOR]


Sometimes it makes sense to go with a real unusual support pick:



Sometimes an unusual pick can be really toxic:



---The key difference? [COLOR="Red"]Don't be a jerk[/COLOR]


I've seen this case emote spamming case before. And he fails the test. [COLOR="Red"]He was being a jerk.[/COLOR]

You can see in his matches that other players ask him to stop. They even do so nicely at some points. But this player doesn't care. [COLOR="red"]He doesn't care because he's being a jerk.[/COLOR]

Is he using a feature of our game which has many legitimate purposes? Of course!

But is he abusing this legitimate feature to be a [COLOR="red"]jerk[/COLOR]? Yes. He is literally spamming the same phrase throughout the entire duration of the game.

Could other players fiddle with their sound settings to disable this? Sure.

Should we expect other players to adjust their player experience because a [COLOR="Red"]jerk [/COLOR]is harassing them?

No. Never.

I even spent some extra time looking up this player's past harassment history. This is not an isolated 5 games this player has done this. He has repeatedly found ways to annoy and harass other players. That's the main reason he has a tribunal case in the first place.

Lyte has mentioned this in the past, but the Tribunal is really great at finding jerks in our game. But it's not always great at providing the full context of just how much of a jerk they are. But always keep in mind it takes many reports, in many games, by many people to even be considered for the Tribunal. The system may only pull 1 to 5 chat logs for a case, but make no doubt about it, the accused has been reported in many many more games than that.

The process is always being iterated on and improved though. And if the PB&J Team sees a need for the additional context to be shown, I'm confident in their abilities to make that happen.
If spamming emotes is bannable then make it impossible to spam emotes. Spam filter like chat filter. I find this case to be ridiculous. I frequently spam /laugh in the lane (even if I'm losing) because Lulu's laugh makes me smile. But that's being a jerk? I can't enjoy the game the way I like it and have fun? If you say it's at the enemies expense I'm not buying it.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by smilefase View Post
Why is the red being upvoted? He is wrong, plain and simple. People have refuted his argument over and over, and all he does is just cover his ears and eyes and just yells "DON'T BE A JERK". Well for one they only told him to stop in 1 game. For two now I am legitimately afraid of using in game mechanics for fear of being banned. Great job riot, Tribunal is going to kill this game in a year. I can only hope you guys come to your senses and get rid of this great toxic cancer that is the Tribunal.

People have refuted the arguments against him as well. Don't allow your own vision to become bias. He has as much room to argue as anyone else, and he has as much room to be upvoted as anyone else.

You think he's wrong? Downvote him, it's not his fault everyone sides against you.

Quote:
If spamming emotes is bannable then make it impossible to spam emotes. Spam filter like chat filter. I find this case to be ridiculous. I frequently spam /laugh in the lane (even if I'm losing) because Lulu's laugh makes me smile. But that's being a jerk? I can't enjoy the game the way I like it and have fun? If you say it's at the enemies expense I'm not buying it.
I'm not gonna ask if you've read this thread, but:

HAVE YOU EVEN READ THIS PAGE!?

Seriously.


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slamor

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
We're not going to remove features from our game because certain players are jerks and choose to abuse them.

We will not remove emotes because someone would spam them from start to finish to be a jerk. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not remove chat because someone would use it to harass and annoy other players. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not remove the option to be an unusual support (ie: Rammus) because someone would choose it to be spiteful and punish his team by feeding kills. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not remove certain summoner spells because someone chose them specifically to get his team mates mad while he intentionally feeds the game. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not forbid you from buying more than 5 wards because someone may choose to write bad symbols with them. Instead we would remove the jerk.

There are plenty of other examples I can give. But essentially it boils down to this: If a person abuses features in game to be a jerk to team mates, then we will not be removing the feature: we will remove the jerk. As 99% of our community can use taunts without being a jerk, we will not be making a special case for a troll because they can't control themselves.

They should just stop being a jerk.



In this case I didn't use extra information to judge the case. The case has enough information about this player being a jerk. You can see from his games that he starts from the very beginning of the match to the very end spamming the same emote over and over again.

This is sufficient evidence to determine that he is indeed a jerk. I provided extra information to those who still seemed to be convinced that this person was just having some good natured fun. He wasn't. And he's trolled a great many games in the past.



A couple of issues here.

1) We can see from the tribunal case that he wasn't annoying just his enemies(not that this would suddenly make it okay). He was annoying his team mates who asked him to stop repeatedly across many games.
2) Playing "mind games" and being a jerk are not one in the same. You can play a lot of mind games, such as by faking out a player, denying them access in lane, and baiting them into traps; all of these don't involve you being a jerk.



1. Your comparing being Warned/Banned in a video game to being thrown in jail in real life……

2. It doesn't bother me to remind people to not be a jerk. I don't want people to be afraid of being banned. That's why I try to make it pretty simple for them to understand the Code. [COLOR="Red"]Don't be a jerk.[/COLOR]

3. I don't treat players as less of a person because they've been banned by the Tribunal. I've spent considerable time working with players to help them understand why they were banned by the Tribunal and what they can do to avoid additional bans in the future. I hate seeing people get banned from the game they love. But I've seen the effects that jerks have on our game and our players. If toxic players refuse to change their behavior and would rather ruin the experience of others then it leaves me with little choice.

4. The founders of the United States didn't have the Internet. And they didn't play League of Legends.



We think you can be a competitive minded person and not be a jerk. Outside the video game industry I think it's called "good sportsmanship".




I can see your point here, but it's important to keep in mind that the Tribunal system does not create a punishment based off of the crime. It works on a tiered system. Where toxic behavior is punished with an increasing suspension each time it is found.

In this player's case he had already been warned about his behavior beforehand, and he has elected to ignore the warning.

As I mentioned earlier no one is inclined to remove features because certain players are not responsible enough to use them properly. We would much rather remove the immature players who would be jerks in our game.




That's really cool to hear. I think at times everyone's tempted to be a jerk. But the benefits are few and far between. We should always keep in mind that we play League of Legends to have fun. If we're not having fun, perhaps we should take a break for a bit.



No. That's not what I said.

I said: [COLOR="Red"]Don't be a jerk.[/COLOR]

If you're spamming emotes from start to finish because you like to see everyone (including teammates) yell at you and beg you to stop, then you're being a jerk.

And you should stop.

If you get personal satisfaction from ruining other people's fun then you're being a jerk.

And you should stop.

If people ask you to stop trolling, and you do it even harder just to spite them then you're being a jerk.

And you should stop.

What made me the most angry today was after a 10 game winning that i get pitted against a 3 man premade who had voice. I now see what riot means by a limited player base. I was playing as teemo. It was quite the comeback though. It really made a difference counter jungling leesin's jungle by just leaving one small one alive. No more using Q to escape every single situation and reducing his lifesteal sources.


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Burnie

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Senior Member

11-26-2012

That one rap song "You a Jerk" (or some such) comes to mind.


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
[COLOR="Red"]Don't be a jerk.[/COLOR]

Players frequently write to my team full of excuses for their case, or fearful that they're going to get banned in the future.

They often want to debate the Summoner's Code down point by point.

Is it okay to do this? What about that? What if someone else does X, and I do Y to them in retaliation? Can I get banned for Z?

And our response can always be summed up with one simple phrase:

[COLOR="red"]Don't be a jerk[/COLOR]
WookieeCookie, you are my ****ing hero. Thank you so much for clarifying this for everyone.


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CloudedInSanity

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Ok, let us think about what WookieCookie is saying in some other context for a second.

You are allowed to have a knife. You are not allowed to stab people with said knife.

You are allowed to drive a vehicle. You are not allowed to run people over with said vehicle.

You are allowed to talk in games of LoL. You are not allowed to spam/harass/excessively curse in chat in LoL.

You are allowed to have emotes in LoL. You are not allowed to spam emotes for 100% of a game to the point where it becomes spam/harassment.

We are allowed to do a lot of things in life. But with everything we are allowed to do there are boundaries that we are NOT allowed to cross.


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Ninjaken

Senior Member

11-26-2012

This extremely bothers me because this isn't based on rules. This is based off of personality and opinions. In one game, if you spam emotes the entire game, but no one seems to mind, then you would think its okay. However, in another game, where people can be oversensitive, it maybe not be okay. This makes it so that spamming emotes are based on whether people are hurt by it or whether they find it annoying while others can find it to be hilarious.


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Elric Sadricson

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Dear Riot,

During my time playing league of legends, I've spent quite a bit of time watching live streams and following you folks at Riot. After seeing how much fun some of the Riot staff as well as Dyrus, a fairly well known streamer have had by playing Singed and spamming /laugh, I started playing Singed.

While playing Singed, I regularly spam /laugh because I think you guys did a great job on it and it's hillarious, I do tend to spam it all game long because I enjoy it so much, and I've seen Dyrus as well as Riot employees do the same thing, and usually they're laughing or grinning in real life as they do it, because it's very amusing.

Do I now have to worry about losing my account that I've spent... god... probably close to $1000 on now (yes I know I don't have badges, I'm not a super amazing player, not the kind someone would want to watch, but I enjoy this game greatly and have chosen to show it by buying pretty much everything that I'd want to have) all because I spam emotes?

After spending almost $1000 on my account, would you actually ban me and take it all away for spamming a /laugh the same way I've seen streamers and Riot employees do countless times? Must I now limit my fun and not use certain features of the game to amuse myself for the risk of being banned and having an account that I've put so much into taken away?

This makes me sad


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

11-26-2012

So is wookie the fabled riot behavior analyst.