You cant be serious about this ban

First Riot Post
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tempnameA461

Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
*cough*

Argument from nature of motive, rather than degree of motive. That's how you started this argument. No more amnesia, please.
Awww... it looks like I kinda screwed up there.
I was correct before.

The degree does matter under the condition that we refuse to accept that he may not be guilty.
We (as in, everyone else) refused to accept that he could not be guilty, and my most recent argument was under this condition.
Sadism may not make him less guilty, but it definitely doesn't automatically mean he's more guilty, even if popular opinion says so.


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Icedragon02

Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
Don't be a jerk.


Is he using a feature of our game which has many legitimate purposes? Of course!

But is he abusing this legitimate feature to be a jerk? Yes. He is literally spamming the same phrase throughout the entire duration of the game.

Could other players fiddle with their sound settings to disable this? Sure.

Should we expect other players to adjust their player experience because a jerk is harassing them?

No. Never.

I even spent some extra time looking up this player's past harassment history. This is not an isolated 5 games this player has done this. He has repeatedly found ways to annoy and harass other players. That's the main reason he has a tribunal case in the first place.

Lyte has mentioned this in the past, but the Tribunal is really great at finding jerks in our game. But it's not always great at providing the full context of just how much of a jerk they are. But always keep in mind it takes many reports, in many games, by many people to even be considered for the Tribunal. The system may only pull 1 to 5 chat logs for a case, but make no doubt about it, the accused has been reported in many many more games than that.

The process is always being iterated on and improved though. And if the PB&J Team sees a need for the additional context to be shown, I'm confident in their abilities to make that happen.
Some points make no sense. You claim that he is ruining the game for other people by spamming emotes, and thus he is being a jerk. You say other people could turn off their sound, but that would ruin their game. So he should stop, ruin his game for the "common good" or in this case, the other people who don't want to hear him /taunt. I get the point you were trying to make, but you made it sound very hypocritical.

Also, here is the problem we have with the Tribunal. People who's cases appear before the tribunal are being banned for poor reasons (like this case). People bring it to the attention of Rioters that this is unjust. While their behavior is indeed toxic, according to the rules set down by the tribunal, and the information we as tribunal reviewers are given, this falls into the definition of an unjust ban.

The reaction of Riot is to look up "examples" of other's players behavior that we as Tribunal members are not given, and justify why the ban is warrented and right. THIS IS NOT RIGHT. This is NOT the reason you created the Tribunal. If that was indeed the case, the Tribunal would ONLY have a PUNISH button, there would be no need for pardon because as you say, it takes a lot of reports from a lot of people in a lot of games to even MAKE it to the Tribunal. So if Rioters are just going to back up wrong bans, then I ask why even make the Tribunal?

I know what you are attempting to do, and I know it is a hard task, but I think the approach here is all wrong. Although it is painful to do so, I think you guys should stick to the Tribunal YOU created, and make sure that it isn't being abused. True, it is banning toxic players like this, but if you want the community to have a voice in dealing with the community, then you can't go looking up past incurrences of players claiming false bans. And, like Lyte says several times to odd cases where a person really needing a punish gets pardoned, toxic players will remain toxic enough that they will just end up right back in the Tribunal.

Then again, Riot does have the power to do whatever they want to whoever they want. Just take this as a plee from a gamer who has always liked the idea of a Tribual, just thinks it needs some tweaks and Riot needs to keep with it in the entirety, not just when it benefits the situation.

Thanks.


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WookieeCookie

Player Support Lead -
Player Behavior

11-26-2012
2 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddler View Post
Uhhh im not really sure where the logic is for this; if you can get BANNED for spamming an emote that was created in the game you may as well make a disable emote option, and while your at it, you may as well remove emotes entirely from the game.

I don't care if its not an isolated case and he got reported like 20 times for spamming emotes; Its a tool YOU give and you want to try to somehow find some line where people decide whats too much or whats too little on its usage?
We're not going to remove features from our game because certain players are jerks and choose to abuse them.

We will not remove emotes because someone would spam them from start to finish to be a jerk. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not remove chat because someone would use it to harass and annoy other players. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not remove the option to be an unusual support (ie: Rammus) because someone would choose it to be spiteful and punish his team by feeding kills. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not remove certain summoner spells because someone chose them specifically to get his team mates mad while he intentionally feeds the game. Instead we would remove the jerk.

We will not forbid you from buying more than 5 wards because someone may choose to write bad symbols with them. Instead we would remove the jerk.

There are plenty of other examples I can give. But essentially it boils down to this: If a person abuses features in game to be a jerk to team mates, then we will not be removing the feature: we will remove the jerk. As 99% of our community can use taunts without being a jerk, we will not be making a special case for a troll because they can't control themselves.

They should just stop being a jerk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson62 View Post
The logic is still stupid, he was doing it to have fun, not to be a jerk.

Only in one game did they ask him to stop.

Lyte you get more information than the tribunal, but according to the information the tribunal had should be the only information used to judge.

You having to look into his other games proves there was not enough information in the games we had to warrant a ban

In the end you get a final say, but it doesn't change the fact you approve bans for emoting. which is sad.
In this case I didn't use extra information to judge the case. The case has enough information about this player being a jerk. You can see from his games that he starts from the very beginning of the match to the very end spamming the same emote over and over again.

This is sufficient evidence to determine that he is indeed a jerk. I provided extra information to those who still seemed to be convinced that this person was just having some good natured fun. He wasn't. And he's trolled a great many games in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaR10s View Post
Since when annoying your opponents is wrong? It's called mind games. Why wouldn't I do something that can possibly lead my opponent to make a bad decision?
A couple of issues here.

1) We can see from the tribunal case that he wasn't annoying just his enemies(not that this would suddenly make it okay). He was annoying his team mates who asked him to stop repeatedly across many games.
2) Playing "mind games" and being a jerk are not one in the same. You can play a lot of mind games, such as by faking out a player, denying them access in lane, and baiting them into traps; all of these don't involve you being a jerk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenmar View Post
1. Since when was being a jerk a crime? Or should be treated as such? Do you see police arrest people because they were being a jerk?

2. Doesn't it bother you that you actually are creating fear in people's hearts and souls when they play your game because of the even haunting feeling of being banned?

3. Do you really feel so strongly that you could if spending a day in the life or with that person you think is a jerk could still call them a jerk to their face and treat them as less of a person?

4. Even our founding fathers here in the USA understood that a declaration by itself is meaningless as it leaves everything open to interpretation. A constitution lets the people know what laws and rights they have as a member of society.
1. Your comparing being Warned/Banned in a video game to being thrown in jail in real life……

2. It doesn't bother me to remind people to not be a jerk. I don't want people to be afraid of being banned. That's why I try to make it pretty simple for them to understand the Code. Don't be a jerk.

3. I don't treat players as less of a person because they've been banned by the Tribunal. I've spent considerable time working with players to help them understand why they were banned by the Tribunal and what they can do to avoid additional bans in the future. I hate seeing people get banned from the game they love. But I've seen the effects that jerks have on our game and our players. If toxic players refuse to change their behavior and would rather ruin the experience of others then it leaves me with little choice.

4. The founders of the United States didn't have the Internet. And they didn't play League of Legends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olek Skilgannon View Post
Then remove emotes. Its down right STUPID to be banned for it. What's the point in having in game taunts if they're not allowed.

You say don't be a jerk, but come the **** on. It's a TAUNT.

Relevant video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS5peqApgUA

Take note how Daigo taunts after EVERY SUPER. This is why you put taunts in games. To be used. If they enemy gets mad about it, GOOD. They're:

A) Overly sensitive.
B) More likely to make a mistake allowing you to win the game just a little bit easier.


I'm here to win at all costs (cheating barred). If **** talk and spamming emotes is 1 way I can do that, I WILL EXPLOIT IT.
We think you can be a competitive minded person and not be a jerk. Outside the video game industry I think it's called "good sportsmanship".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Duck View Post
Sorry Wookiecookie, big fan here, but you're wrong.

I agree this guy was being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk, but in the context of the actual offense committed, a time ban was overkill. A simple warning should have been the first step, and then a time ban if this guy really is abusing the client to annoy him teammates in a way they cannot stop him.

However, I think a better solution, overall, to prevent what is a silly case being in the Tribunal, Riot should look to tweaking their game client. If players could disable hearing emotes, then emote spamming can't be considered unavoidable harassment.

I can see your point here, but it's important to keep in mind that the Tribunal system does not create a punishment based off of the crime. It works on a tiered system. Where toxic behavior is punished with an increasing suspension each time it is found.

In this player's case he had already been warned about his behavior beforehand, and he has elected to ignore the warning.

As I mentioned earlier no one is inclined to remove features because certain players are not responsible enough to use them properly. We would much rather remove the immature players who would be jerks in our game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by potatowarlock View Post
THIS, my main account got perm banned cause I was a giant jerk. I'm not being a jerk anymore, and holy **** is it WAYYY more fun to just have fun, than get mad and be a jerk.

That's really cool to hear. I think at times everyone's tempted to be a jerk. But the benefits are few and far between. We should always keep in mind that we play League of Legends to have fun. If we're not having fun, perhaps we should take a break for a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJay Saint View Post
So what you're saying is, if I'm ever in a game and someone uses any emotes in lane at me, I should report them and then get them banned because my little feelings got hurt? That big mean jerk!

Seriously, in EVERY game I play people use emotes all the time. Some times people will sit in front of your tower and spam the taunt emote in a mocking manner, or the laugh emote. Do I feel the need to cry about it and report them to get them banned? As long as they were talking trash in all chat and straight up flaming me and saying things like "you're a noob ******!", then not at all.

I just can't believe this is actually an acceptable punishment, and you justify it by a very vague rule that can only be defined by an OPINION. In fact, I remember Riot actually enabling emotes to be spammed a while ago, and a dev post or some sort of announcement actually advertising it so people CAN spam emotes.

Why punish someone for it if emotes were enabled this way on PURPOSE to BE SPAMMED? That's just stupid.

Is it annoying to listen to someone spam emotes all game? Yeah some times. However I don't feel the need to get teary eyed and go tell mommy. People need to grow up and stop being such a baby about things like this. There are MUCH worse things someone can do in a match than just use an emote, like purposely troll your team and lose intentionally (had that 2 games in a row tonight).

If he was harassing someone, calling them names, etc. then I can understand. If he's just using an emote that was intentionally designed to be spammed? That's bull****.
No. That's not what I said.

I said: Don't be a jerk.

If you're spamming emotes from start to finish because you like to see everyone (including teammates) yell at you and beg you to stop, then you're being a jerk.

And you should stop.

If you get personal satisfaction from ruining other people's fun then you're being a jerk.

And you should stop.

If people ask you to stop trolling, and you do it even harder just to spite them then you're being a jerk.

And you should stop.


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Illyriomysterio

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenmar View Post
1. Since when was being a jerk a crime? Or should be treated as such? Do you see police arrest people because they were being a jerk?

2. Doesn't it bother you that you actually are creating fear in people's hearts and souls when they play your game because of the even haunting feeling of being banned?

3. Do you really feel so strongly that you could if spending a day in the life or with that person you think is a jerk could still call them a jerk to their face and treat them as less of a person?

4. Even our founding fathers here in the USA understood that a declaration by itself is meaningless as it leaves everything open to interpretation. A constitution lets the people know what laws and rights they have as a member of society.

Rawr Rawr fake outrage rawr.


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Thisdude1

Senior Member

11-26-2012

wow if you don't want ppl to spam things like joke taunt ect then put a delay in it from a programming perspective it would b very simple and would make it so you would not have to punish people for some thing like this and as for the other case spamming some thing in chat there is an ignore button for a reason, people need to learn to chill out. It's things like this that make me paranoid I will get the ban hammer. Riot is using the tribunal basicly to rule over us in fear and im not saying that because I act like a "jerk" nor have I ever been suspended or ban.


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KokoPonz

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Amount of times the word "jerk" appears in this thread: over 9000


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tempnameA461

Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisdude1 View Post
wow if you don't want ppl to spam things like joke taunt ect then put a delay in it from a programming perspective it would b very simple and would make it so you would not have to punish people for some thing like this and as for the other case spamming some thing in chat there is an ignore button for a reason, people need to learn to chill out. It's things like this that make me paranoid I will get the ban hammer. Riot is using the tribunal basicly to rule over us in fear and im not saying that because I act like a "jerk" nor have I ever been suspended or ban.
This dude's grammar hurt my brain.


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Fox P McCloud

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WookieeCookie View Post
If you get personal satisfaction from ruining other people's fun then you're being a jerk.

And you should stop.
Question. If your only enjoy (or rather heavy primary) enjoy from playing LoL is crushing other people under feet (via skill, tactics or what-not, without engaging in verbal abuse, emote spamming, etc), should that individual be playing LoL? Stated anotehr reason, the only reason that person enjoys playing LoL is to intentionally make his opponent lose (contrast this with the mentality of playing to win).


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metalaug

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Wookie'd


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tempnameA461

Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KokoPonz View Post
Amount of times the word "jerk" appears in this thread: over 9000
Fun fact: Jerk is literally the weakest form of negativity possible.
Bětch, ass hole and such are far, far worse.