Ranked truths about elo hell and ranked in general.

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Ðucktales

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimoar View Post

Plat players crying because their stuck in 700 ELO just proves this thread wrong, will they climb out? god only knows..

if a plat player happend to go to 700 elo youd never see them again, they would never climb out, they would cry and delete account, make a league of legends ruined my life thread and get told to qq moar


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Raisu

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolyeon265 View Post
Even as support you can carry yourself up to 1200 from 700.
Come find me when you keep getting ADCs who charge into the enemy team as though they are a tank, doesn't back off when you're pinging to retreat because the enemy jungler just showed up on your ward's vision and then rages trying to blame you for not warding, etc.

Also, that said.. I don't care who you are but if one person is feeding, thats manageable... if two people are feeding you're pushing a boulder uphill but you're still capable... if three or more are feeding then the only thing that will help you win is the enemy team DCing or going AFK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoltAktion View Post
You can't judge an individual based on how four other people play with him. <rest of quote snipped>
See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhare View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimoar View Post
<rest of quote snipped>
This is a team game, ELO Reflects how well your team was, not you personally.
That's what people tell themselves when they're stuck at 800 elo. Doesn't make it true.
With Elo truly being a rating system for Chess as a 1v1 scenario that has very few variables outside each individual players' performance, you can't honestly say that it is a good rating system for a team scenario with a large number of variables outside the individual player's performance for the rating to accurately show that specific person's performance.

It's more accurate to say that (for a 5v5 solo queue game) 90% of anyone's Elo rating is based on how everyone else in his/her games performed and only 10% of how that specific player performed in those games.

With all of that out of the way, Elo is more suitable as a rating system for Teams than it is for Solo players as it then shows how that entire team performs as a whole vs other teams.

Oh, for the record, to your "800 Elo" statement, I'm somewhere around 1200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnChoGath View Post
Most likely it'll be the other team who receives them, as they have 5 players who could do this, while your team will only have 4.
I can't tell you how often i've heard this statement. Fact is, you're overlooking the fact that you as an individual have a 50/50 chance to be on the team of 4 that has a leaver/troll/feeder/unskilled player who thinks AD Carry Jungle Taric is pro.

Granted, the chance of having a player like that in the game itself is unlikely over the long run, the sad truth is that statistics can be true in a number of different ways.

One example is that while all games for everyone but two players fall within the normal for the statistics. An undeserving player can be very lucky and get 'carried' by his teams because his opponents are trolls/feeders, while another is left very unlucky and getting his elo trashed because his teammates are trolls/feeders.

However, overall the statistic remains normal.

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In regards to the 50/50 chance to be on the other team in regards to the "Its more likely for the other team to have that feeder/troll/leaver/etc:
  1. Queue 1
    • Team 1: Player A, B, C, D, E
    • Team 2: Player 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
    Player 1 dodges.
  2. Queue 2
    • Team 1: Player A, B, 3, D, E
    You don't recognize Player 3's name, assuming he took C's spot but you recognize everyone else's from before.
    • Team 2: Player 2, 4, 5, 6, C
    Player 2 dodges. You don't know Player C is on the other team here.
  3. Queue 2
    • Team 1: Player A, B, C, D, E
    • Team 2: Player 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
    You realize you had the same team as back in Queue 1.
    Game Launches

Now, with that out of the way. Player 4 turned out to be a feeder, had the game launched in Queue 2, Player C would have been on the feeders team, instead.


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FAA

Senior Member

11-19-2012

bump got buried again.


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InstantLockHeim

Junior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoltenShots View Post
actually it probably does. since you instant lock heimer.

I can see it says junior member so that tells me that s3 is probably your first ranked? anyway it honestly probably does.
If I had the user name Adolf Hitler would that make me Adolf Hitler?
It shows me as a junior member because this is my first post on the forums! Any more Assumptions?


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InstantLockHeim

Junior Member

11-20-2012

Of course players not in elo hell will make idiotic assumptions about their skill levels lol but in reality there just surrounded by players that can as least play without trolling!
With high elo’s come high ego’s


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IronyOwl

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raisu View Post
I can't tell you how often i've heard this statement. Fact is, you're overlooking the fact that you as an individual have a 50/50 chance to be on the team of 4 that has a leaver/troll/feeder/unskilled player who thinks AD Carry Jungle Taric is pro.
No. One is a team of 4, the other is a team of 5. That's not a 50/50 chance.

Or, put another way: supposing I've got a deck of cards labeled Pro, Average, Scrub, Feeder, and Leaver. Then I plop a Pro card in front of myself, shuffle the deck, and deal out four extra cards to myself and five to you. Would you say that's a fair game, since each of us has a "50/50 chance" to get a bad hand?

No, you'd say of course I'd win, at least on average, I've got a guaranteed Pro. That's exactly the situation if you're really better than your Elo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raisu View Post
In regards to the 50/50 chance to be on the other team in regards to the "Its more likely for the other team to have that feeder/troll/leaver/etc:
  1. Queue 1
    • Team 1: Player A, B, C, D, E
    • Team 2: Player 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
    Player 1 dodges.
  2. Queue 2
    • Team 1: Player A, B, 3, D, E
    You don't recognize Player 3's name, assuming he took C's spot but you recognize everyone else's from before.
    • Team 2: Player 2, 4, 5, 6, C
    Player 2 dodges. You don't know Player C is on the other team here.
  3. Queue 2
    • Team 1: Player A, B, C, D, E
    • Team 2: Player 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
    You realize you had the same team as back in Queue 1.
    Game Launches

Now, with that out of the way. Player 4 turned out to be a feeder, had the game launched in Queue 2, Player C would have been on the feeders team, instead.
This is a convoluted and pointless anecdote that says nothing but "It's possible to get a bad player on your team or the enemy team." If you look at the odds of getting Player 4 on your team OVERALL, and not just in the two incredibly specific scenarios you just described, you'll find that it's still 4:5 in your favor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InstantLockHeim View Post
Of course players not in elo hell will make idiotic assumptions about their skill levels lol but in reality there just surrounded by players that can as least play without trolling!
With high elos come high egos
Wouldn't this be Elo Heaven, then? You're so damned good that everyone around you is a pompous jackass?


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NSF Dredd

Senior Member

11-20-2012

No.


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Celestya

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Kinda sick of people saying there's this "perfect Elo range" or "Elo hell exists". Both are fallacies. Have you WATCHED a 2200 elo game? They can be some of the most troll games out there. There's no magic heavenly Elo. Dumb players exist at ALL ranges of the game. Trolls exist at all ranges of the game too.

You wanna know something else dumb? Saying someone who is 1200 elo deserves to be there, is just lunacy. I've seen players go from 2000 to 1300 from intentional trolls. Guardsman Bob in Season 1 had this happen, and I felt bad for the guy. But yeah, just sayin'.


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Lcifel

Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
In regards to the 50/50 chance to be on the other team in regards to the "Its more likely for the other team to have that feeder/troll/leaver/etc:
Queue 1
Team 1: Player A, B, C, D, E
Team 2: Player 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Player 1 dodges.
Queue 2
Team 1: Player A, B, 3, D, E
You don't recognize Player 3's name, assuming he took C's spot but you recognize everyone else's from before.
Team 2: Player 2, 4, 5, 6, C
Player 2 dodges. You don't know Player C is on the other team here.
Queue 2
Team 1: Player A, B, C, D, E
Team 2: Player 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
You realize you had the same team as back in Queue 1.
Game Launches

Now, with that out of the way. Player 4 turned out to be a feeder, had the game launched in Queue 2, Player C would have been on the feeders team, instead.
I'm guessing you don't understand how queue works. If one player leaves, the rest are to be considered hitting "Play" and starting the lobby at the same time. This makes the chances of getting paired with the same person higher.

If you don't like the team composition, then wait a few minutes before entering the lobby again.


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SoWrules

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoltenShots View Post
I have seen a HUGE influx of ranked threads and elo hell threads since the end of S2.

most of these are about the win loss ratio and not being able to climb out of elo hell and staying in the same elo range.

this isn't elo hell. this isn't something wrong with the matchmaking system. this is the matchmaking system doing it's job correctly.

the reason for staying around the same elo is because you are at the elo for your skill level.

you need to realize that 1200 elo is GOOD. that is the too 25ish% of the players. not counting the ones that don't play ranked.

I know I will probably get a ton of downvotes for this thread but I wanted to share some information about how 1200elo is good and this "elo hell" is just your current skill range. and when you get out of that elo hell, this means that you have increased your skill level and will fall into another "elo hell" when you get to the point that you reach your skill level again.

this is why high ranked players are so easily able to come from low elos or from smurfs because their "elo hell" is much higher and they can get other accounts there because that is their skill level.

if you have anything to add to this thread I will put it on the main page to help spread the info around the community.

Against! 1200elo is not bad! that is in the top percentage of the players!!

Ok let me explain this to you, and all the others who say this is matchmaking at its best.

The only time matchmaking is doing what its supposed to do is NOT when you ump around the same elo range. Its when you are paired with enemies of the same indiviual elo.

An equal skilled match.

1200 elo is not good. remember that the "Top percentage of the players" that doesn't mean its good. that means you're as bad as the average. Thats not how skill works. The better you are, the less there are of you.

Theres a difference between plat players and gold no doubt. Theres a reason yyou see them "carry" themselves out of elo hell. in truth their skill level is way above that, and honestly, to win before 1600 all you need to do is learn the mistakes that they all share.

Ezreals rush trinity force, people don't back at low health, people don't push towers like they should, Junglers have no idea when to go for dragon, wards stop all ganks, and if you just delay your invade, you'll easily kill the jungler.

Matchmaking is currently NOT working at its best. in fact its probably one of the ****tiest things i've ever seen.

Not only will i go into a match and face literal 1550s on the enemy team (Lol thats balanced) when im at 1450. but my team will obviously be. 1410s. This is a real match that happened.

The problem with league is, theres no way to carry a bad team. of course not. Its good like that, this isn't dota. But thats where elo hell comes from. Where your team is immensely bad, and theres no carrying them.

Ranked is just a basket of luck and individual skill. Plat players just "smurf" and make the thing worse for everyone. Bad players just jump in and make the game worse for everyone. The queue system is incredibly stupid, there is no counter picking, and if you're not 1st or 2nd, you most likely won't get mid or top. Which are highly influencial, and if you do get them. Say hello to getting countered.

Personally the only way to win is to duo in my opinion. or be at the skill level and mindset of a plat player. What they do isn't that complex. Its more like childs play.