What do you think?

We need more badass females 637 28.88%
We need more crude, unrefined, gritty females 313 14.19%
All above. 858 38.89%
NO. 398 18.04%
Voters: 2206. You may not vote on this poll

@IronStylus/Morello: [Subject] The type of female champions we're missing.

First Riot Post
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G1aD0S

Senior Member

11-19-2012

We need a freaking badass female champion archtype.

Let me finish.

Ahri, Leona, Diana, Shyvanna, Fiora, Elise, Syndra, Sejuani, Riven, Karma, Cailyn, Irelia, Zyra, Nami.

With very few exceptions (most notably Lulu), tons of recent female champs strike as a character who, if not heroic, is (or once was) either respectable (society-wise), refined, elegant, graceful, honorable / seeks honor (and/or respect).

I mean, just look at their character.

In light of all recent the feminism posts about female champions,
I dare you to find at least 3 recent female champions that dose not fit into the categories I just gave.

Quote:
<EDIT>: People, when i say RECENT,
I am NOT looking for TWO YEAR OLD CHAMPIONS
(IE: Sivir, Katarina, Nidalee, Poppy, etc)

They were made in a time when Riot had much more to explore with their genres of female characters.
I'm only trying to raise awareness of some types we might be missing/want more of.

When I say recent, I mean anything within this year. (11/19/2011 and beyond)


Quote:
<Edit / VERY Late PS>
Upon reading replies, I think I made a mistake in defining "badass" (my apologies, this is kinda 18 pages too late XD).

When I said badass earlier, I had more of a youthful + energeticly rebellious/rash connotation attached to the word when I was typing this. Kinda like Revy from Black Lagoon, or a female with a Zigg's expression turned down a couple of notches. I am now a little bit wiser.

Now that I think about it, I think my point with the female champions I listed would be better illustrated if I said, "These females all show little to no youthful energy/rebeliousness/rashness in a badass manner." (If that makes more sense to you)

I don't know what your definition of badass is, but mine is THIS

I mean, come ON.

This is League of LEGENDS.

Raw, crude, unrefined, fiery antagonists are born from legends too.

I think that is the type of female champion we need. Do you not agree, IronStylus? Morello?


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FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE NEED ONE WHO MAKES PLAYERS TAKE NOTE OF HER BADASSNESS BEFORE NOTICING HOW GOOD SHE MAY OR MAY NOT LOOK:



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Please take the time to look at these pictures, they are worth your time from their sheer awesomeness.

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One so badass, that she could bite a bullet and spit it back out without blinking

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...a84b22ba82.jpg


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<Edit>

W00T my first red post on GD ^.^


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Could not agree more here - big hole in this archetype, and one of my favorites. Makes me think of Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica.

You will be very pleased with our final release of the year


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chumbler

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Just a note, that's probably not the best site to link to from here.

But yeah, the game badly needs more variety in its female champions, both in appearance and in personality (in many cases, merely having a personality would be a step up). Where are characters like The Boss, or like Baiken, or like Hammer, or like Makoto from Street Fighter? Why are there so many girl-in-monster-suit champions rather than actual female monsters?

Given Morello's rather disturbing comments and IronStylus spewing the same boilerplate he always does with little to show for it ("They were already in development" can only be stretched for so long when this discussion has been popping up for years), I'm beginning to question whether Riot actually is motivated to change their design practices.

There's nothing wrong with sexy female champions or skins in a vacuum. But we aren't in a vacuum. Try something else at least one more time? Try to step away from female monster meaning girl-in-a-monster-suit. Try to make some women who look tough rather than just saying you think they're tough. Show us some battle scars. Show us physical strength. Show us someone who doesn't look like they walked out of the employees' section of a strip club and who doesn't spout off more sexual innuendo than a phone *** operator. Riven was a missed opportunity to make a woman who looks like a battle scarred veteran, which would have added to and reinforced her character instead of the mousy, flawless girl-next-door we got. Don't make the same mistake with Sivir's remake. She's one of the best fighters in the world. She's not just a mercenary commander, she's THE mercenary commander. She's been through more battles than most of the League. Jax respects her. Make her look like it.

And please, for the love of all that is good, don't Ruin Karma's character in her art remake like you did Soraka's character.


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ScorchXBanister

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Senior Member

11-19-2012

For the record, Ahri is not heroic, respectable, refined, elegant, graceful, or honorable. She was a fox. Then she was a hoe. Then she was a champion, and in that order.

It sounds like you want a human female Rengar. Not that I'm opposed, but they can't be Urgot levels of ugly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tspuun View Post
I'd say Ahri does have a certain level of grace and elegance to her. She's alluring and seductive, not trashy.
Okay so she wasn't trashy, there was some grace and debateable elegance.


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Tspuun

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScorchXBanister View Post
For the record, Ahri is not heroic, respectable, refined, elegant, graceful, or honorable. She was a fox. Then she was a hoe. Then she was a champion, and in that order.

It sounds like you want a human female Rengar. Not that I'm opposed, but they can't be Urgot levels of ugly.
I'd say Ahri does have a certain level of grace and elegance to her. She's alluring and seductive, not trashy.


Also here is some kind of reminder Sejuani exists, not that I wouldn't mind more gritty women who fight dirty and do what needs to be done regardless of whether or not it's pretty.


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G1aD0S

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
Just a note, that's probably not the best site to link to from here.

But yeah, the game badly needs more variety in its female champions, both in appearance and in personality (in many cases, merely having a personality would be a step up). Where are characters like The Boss, or like Baiken, or like Hammer? Why are there so many girl-in-monster-suit champions rather than actual female monsters?

Given Morello's rather disturbing comments and IronStylus spewing the same boilerplate he always does with little to show for it ("They were already in development" can only be stretched for so long when this discussion has been popping up for years), I'm beginning to question whether Riot actually is motivated to change their design practices.

There's nothing wrong with sexy female champions or skins in a vacuum. But we aren't in a vacuum. Try something else at least one more time? Try to step away from female monster meaning girl-in-a-monster-suit. Try to make some women who look tough rather than just saying you think they're tough. Show us some battle scars. Show us physical strength. Show us someone who doesn't look like they walked out of the employees' section of a strip club and who doesn't spout off more sexual innuendo than a phone *** operator. Riven was a missed opportunity to make a woman who looks like a battle scarred veteran, which would have added to and reinforced her character instead of the mousy, flawless girl-next-door we got. Don't make the same mistake with Sivir's remake. She's one of the best fighters in the world. She's not just a mercenary commander, she's THE mercenary commander. She's been through more battles than most of the League. Jax respects her. Make her look like it.

And please, for the love of all that is good, don't Ruin Karma's character in her art remake like you did Soraka's character.
Wow, dont get me started on Sivir. That's a whole freaking 5 page essay's worth of stuff I have to say about her.

But yeah, Riot is really missing out on a really big source of archtypes.

Instead of looking at the Champion roster, they should be looking at the types of characters in a variety of stories / genres of stories. They'd have much better luck there.

Oh btw sorry about the image hosting site, I totally forgot about the advertisements were even there (using firefox ad-block) gonna try downloading the pics and re-uploading them in a better place.


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chumbler

Senior Member

11-19-2012

^^^^ It's not just the ads, it's all the other content on there as well. I would download them, throw them into compilations, and then reupload to save people the time of clicking a lot of links. You could also just make an album on imgur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tspuun View Post
I'd say Ahri does have a certain level of grace and elegance to her. She's alluring and seductive, not trashy.


Also here is some kind of reminder Sejuani exists, not that I wouldn't mind more gritty women who fight dirty and do what needs to be done regardless of whether or not it's pretty.
Sejuani's design is a total failure. Not because of the leather bikini thing (which wouldn't be that bad because of the Tryndamere parallel if it weren't for all the other female champion designs in the game), but because her design has nothing whatsoever to do with what she actually does.

vvvv Maybe (I personally disagree), but she doesn't look like someone who survived a chemical attack or a lot of battles. She looks like someone's anime dream girlfriend.


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JacksonSolo

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Senior Member

11-19-2012

Default Riven skin looks badass. She's the only one I can really think of right now


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swan2swan

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Senior Member

11-19-2012

I disagree. I think that despite the heroic aspects that the ladies of the League initially display, there's usually an underlying level of "mwahaha" (as I call it). Just check Leona's taunt. And her joke. She's got this sweet, motherly, friend-to-all-the-world's-creatures outward appearance, but she's also got this streak of "Bring it on, punks."

Also: Fiora. "Submit. You have already lost." "I like you. I hate to kill you." "I long for a worthy opponent." Disdainful, haughty, but composed...granted, she doesn't have scars, but that actually makes her a little more impressive and lends itself to her character. How she would react in a story, though, if she DID get a scar, would be a rather interesting story. She strikes me as the type who would hate to have a sign that she had failed in any way.

Katarina's got you covered in the scar department, though.

Yes, they're elegant and graceful, but that doesn't detract from what you're looking for. Check Syndra, too--SO MUCH UNTAPPED POWER. Sivir will strike you down. Sejuani has no pretense of grace or style, either; she wears rags, has a broken horn, rides a giant tusked monster, and has her hair cropped short as she wields a giant mace and chain. There is absolutely nothing delicate about her (though, yes, she could use a bit more bulk and clothing).

And they HAVE promised a barbarian woman. She's coming. Be patient.

Shyvana also has none of the traits you described. High society? She's a blue-skinned freak who is mistrusted and feared by many. Heroic? She's Demacian, yes, but she always goes on about rage and terror. Refined? No. Elegant? Well, yes...but in a draconian fashion. She doesn't strut along, she races with her claws outstretched in armor that is torn and piecemeal. She has that monstrous grace, too...but you won't see her in any ballroom. And as for being honorable, well, her preview said that justice is sometimes savage, and she outright mocks her opponents--"Think you're a dragonslayer? COME HERE AND TRY." She sees everyone else as inferior to her in terms of strength--they are nothing before her. Honor is nowhere near the top of her list.

So, Shyvana and Sejuani both defy your list. You asked for three, though. Diana could be the third; it could be argued that she seeks respect, but she really is just a cold killing machine. I don't think she cares about respect anymore, really...it will never be enough. Miss Fortune isn't that recent I suppose...but what about Katarina? She was just remade. So she counts. Katarina, Sejuani, Shyvana.

BAM. I solved your puzzle. NEXT CHALLENGE.


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G1aD0S

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonSolo View Post
Default Riven skin looks badass. She's the only one I can really think of right now
A champion's appearance is only part of the issue, I'm saying that the the lore affects the character to some degree too.

For example, if Riven was just a normal soldier of Noxus, like Garen or Xin zhao, She'd be just another, "good" champion.

If Zed was "just another random ninja", it would kinda take away the awesomeness of playing a villain.

We need more Riven-like champions who aren't born warriors, but born survivors, uncaring for the honor / glory and in it just for the sheer thrill of the fight.
If I had to describe it, kinda like kenpachi from bleach.


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Magi Homura

Senior Member

11-19-2012

I support more badass Touhou champions.