Automatic Loss Forgiven on 4v5 Games

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Michael J Focxzc

Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwarme View Post
easy. in ranked 5's, you get beat up badly early on (jungle invade let's say) and give up 3-4 kills. that's at ~2 minutes. Level 2 your bot lane gets ganked by the level 4 jungler, gives up a double to their adc, while your mid or top dies in a 1v1 because they're underleveled/less items than their starting opponent who got assist or kill gold. 7-8 minutes in your team is down perhaps 5-6 kills against a fed ADC and a roaming jungler. Somebody DC's at 9 minutes and doesn't leave so that everyone else gets a loss forgiven. When duo-queing it's just as simple to trade off who dodges if things go down into the crapper early game.
The whole concept of 'abusing' this system is completely flawed, as in order to abuse it you have to intentionally put a black mark against your name and possibly get yourself banned. I really don't think people will risk their entire account on the chance that the rest of their team will survive long enough 4v5 against a fed team for ONLY THOSE 4 to get a loss forgiven, mean while he gets nothing but a step closer (for the final step) to getting banned.

They need to be offline or afk for 5 minutes before they are recognised as a 'leaver' by the system. So if they did alt+f4 at 9 minutes, they wouldn't be registered a leaver untill 14 minutes. The team has to then hold on and not lose, 4v5, against a fed carry and roaming jungler for a total of 29 minutes, assuming that they don't just surrender at 20 because they are obviously going to be demotivated and generally butthurt about the whole situation.

I really don't see this system getting abused at all, and even if it does, like i said, long term abusers of the system will get constant leaver marks and will eventually get banned, the system polices its self.


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Michael J Focxzc

Member

11-15-2012

Also updated OP about people attempting to abuse the system to prevent further confusion.


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Michael J Focxzc

Member

11-18-2012

bump


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DodecaHydra

Junior Member

11-18-2012

I could see this still being abused/trolled, although I think this is many leagues in the right direction.

Possible adjustment: elo/ratings changes diminished based on number of missing players?

Let's say you lose 14 elo due to a 4v5--victory is still possible, but significantly more unlikely, so the gains/losses should be adjusted to reflect that. Lose 9 elo instead of 14 or something.


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Michael J Focxzc

Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodecaHydra View Post
I could see this still being abused/trolled, although I think this is many leagues in the right direction.

Possible adjustment: elo/ratings changes diminished based on number of missing players?

Let's say you lose 14 elo due to a 4v5--victory is still possible, but significantly more unlikely, so the gains/losses should be adjusted to reflect that. Lose 9 elo instead of 14 or something.
I've been over every possible situation and i've come to determine it's extremely difficult to abuse, and even if you do managed to pull it off, it's not worth it, as the 'abuser' (leaver) still loses the elo AND gets a mark on the leaver buster system. It honestly would not be abused at all. Even if riot feel it could be abused, they could increase the times by another 5 minutes. 25 minutes is a long time to be 4v5 and not be overwhelmed and lose naturally.


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DévilsAngél

Junior Member

11-18-2012

I cant agree more with this entire thread right here. I just added a loss to my numbers because not only one but two people DCed from the start of the game. One came back twenty minutes later which proved to do nothing. Its entirely ridiculous that I can still lose elo in an unfair game. I dont care to punish those that DC in the game whether its rage or a simple computer problem. The tribunal takes care of that. But please change something that will compesate the other players that lost unfairly. A change in that scenario would make so many people, probably everyone who plays, happy and more interested in playing ranked ques.


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WalkerGann

Junior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinceicarus View Post
I love this idea. Lived this my self just so many times.

We just need to be sure, tho, that ppl wont start d/cing just to save a loss (example : a group of 5 friends, one d/c in order to save the lost for 4 others).


Implement it for solo/duo queue only.


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WalkerGann

Junior Member

11-19-2012

Or you could adjust the leaver buster system to flag the whole team in the premade queue. This way if they do try to trade off losses the team gets punished. Yes this is perfectly fair. You select your Teammates. If you choose to play with people who will willing exploit the game then you are just as guilty as them.

Furthermore, you can also set up another Tribunal for loss forgiveness. The foundation is already there the parameters just need to be adjusted. Then Riot doesnt have to worry about using additional resources in order to review these games. In most cases of dcing due to circumstances beyond your control, you will see where a person attempted to reconnect several times and either got way behind or couldnt get back in before the surrender. Usually accidental dcs have reconnect attempts, intentional dcs do not. If your internet is intermittent then you do not need to be playing ranked and should be the only one punished as you are the only one purposely willing to accept the risk. Each game is already set to log chat and results. This will be sufficient for people to determine if a loss should be forgiven. If someone quits b/c they are being raged on by the whole team, then the whole team is responsible for the loss.

After playing this game since pre season 1, I have lost interest in playing any non ranked solo queue. And I can deal, even though its extremely frustrating, with typical bad players or trolls as i grind my way up the elo. But adding elo losses to quitters and dcs is enough to make me want to stop trying all together. I am sure im not the only one who feels this way. So whether or not Riot decides to take action to correct this situation will depend on how much money they think they will lose in the future to enough decent players who just get fed up and find another game.


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Michael J Focxzc

Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkerGann View Post
Or you could adjust the leaver buster system to flag the whole team in the premade queue. This way if they do try to trade off losses the team gets punished. Yes this is perfectly fair. You select your Teammates. If you choose to play with people who will willing exploit the game then you are just as guilty as them.

Furthermore, you can also set up another Tribunal for loss forgiveness. The foundation is already there the parameters just need to be adjusted. Then Riot doesnt have to worry about using additional resources in order to review these games. In most cases of dcing due to circumstances beyond your control, you will see where a person attempted to reconnect several times and either got way behind or couldnt get back in before the surrender. Usually accidental dcs have reconnect attempts, intentional dcs do not. If your internet is intermittent then you do not need to be playing ranked and should be the only one punished as you are the only one purposely willing to accept the risk. Each game is already set to log chat and results. This will be sufficient for people to determine if a loss should be forgiven. If someone quits b/c they are being raged on by the whole team, then the whole team is responsible for the loss.

After playing this game since pre season 1, I have lost interest in playing any non ranked solo queue. And I can deal, even though its extremely frustrating, with typical bad players or trolls as i grind my way up the elo. But adding elo losses to quitters and dcs is enough to make me want to stop trying all together. I am sure im not the only one who feels this way. So whether or not Riot decides to take action to correct this situation will depend on how much money they think they will lose in the future to enough decent players who just get fed up and find another game.
A leaver tribunal is a pretty good idea, they'd need to add more cues for judges (time stamped d/c's and r/c's) but it seems a little too complicated for something that only has one parameter (has the person been offline for -x- amount of time) and can very easily be put into an automated system.


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Michael J Focxzc

Member

11-22-2012

Bump, losing more elo due to people not actually connecting to the game.