Season 3 (Indirect) Hecarim Nerfs

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Handsome Aniki

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GangstaBlasta View Post
thanks for explaining the math to the *****es
Anytime. It was to my understanding that *****es can't do math, so when an actual thread with a legitimate arguable foundation drops the know-nothing know-it-alls appear and start talking as though they've contributed x amount of hours with a champion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JackalHalfdragon View Post
I DONT play hectarim, or have a PBE account (was deleted while I was in afghanistan)
so take what I say with a grain of salt, but theorycrafting here...

Are you getting the shureillas for the early philo mana regen? with the new elysia's miracle, it might be worth going for that instead, de-slotting it, and filling that item slot with a Yoomus Ghostblade- Same Movespeed, longer duration, and stacks with a shurellias used by your support player.
FON of course doesnt exist, but since we're building for burst movespeed anyway, that can be the slot for Quicksilver Sash->Mercurial Saber
And of course tier 3 boots, and quints working off a higher base movespeed...

I expect that a FULL BUILD Hectarim will actually come out slightly ahead on these changes, at least for burst movespeed.
That build was a S2 max build. Obviously S3 items aren't official so I won't go near that bush for now.

Yes and no. I buy Philo on Heca for the GP5 in addition for the regen. Seeing how HoG will be leaving the fields, avarice blade in addition to its new Twisted fate passive built in, HoG will likely be replaced by this.

That build isn't for burst movement. It's for bulk and bite. Trinity and IE provide maximum damage output. SR for CDR health bulk and for engages. I don't really want the support walking by me when I charge into hell.

All-in-all we won't know and I won't know what to build until final releases come out.


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Technician Tim

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaidya View Post
Oh god... -.-

A passive does NOT make a champ. Heca's passive has NEVER been great, it was decent to just get a little bit of silly AD just for building basic boots but you're building him very wrong if you're building him for MS just because he gets a minimal amount of AD for it... You build a zeal bc it builds into TF, and Heca uses ALL the stats for it, you don;t build it bc it has MS. You build a FoN bc of the redic regen and the highest amount of Mr on a single item, not for the MS. These aren't really "nerfs" they're just balancing these items around other things. Heca wont be hit that hard if you build him correctly.
a passive does make or break a champion is lots of cases
imagine how bad lux's early game burst would be without the extra damage?
imagine how useless katarina would be without voracity
if corki didnt have that extra damage on auto attacks, you wouldnt be able to rush TF
and the best example...karthus...without death defied..he would be utter trash in half the teamfights

so yeah killing someones passive can hurt them a lot..and hec's strong suit was getting huge move speed, and he has the best baron steal in the game right now...i fear for the future of that though


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GangstaBlasta

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackalHalfdragon View Post
I DONT play hectarim, or have a PBE account (was deleted while I was in afghanistan)
so take what I say with a grain of salt, but theorycrafting here...

Are you getting the shureillas for the early philo mana regen? with the new elysia's miracle, it might be worth going for that instead, de-slotting it, and filling that item slot with a Yoomus Ghostblade- Same Movespeed, longer duration, and stacks with a shurellias used by your support player.
FON of course doesnt exist, but since we're building for burst movespeed anyway, that can be the slot for Quicksilver Sash->Mercurial Saber
And of course tier 3 boots, and quints working off a higher base movespeed...

I expect that a FULL BUILD Hectarim will actually come out slightly ahead on these changes, at least for burst movespeed.
see, burst movement speed is great, and I saw the new masteries and they actually offer reduced slow percentages from all sourses so thats pretty awesome, because with the extra movement speed it means hecarim can do consistently more damage throughout a teamfight, and i think even tier 3 boots offer resistence to slow, so yes, builds aside, there are other things for hecarim to do, but i usually start off with an extra 7.4 damage at level 1 from just the passive, which adds up in jungle camps. so my origional post was really aimed at early game damage, but his overall movement speed from items will be reduced, but at least he can be resistent to slows


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DPCyric

Junior Member

11-18-2012

I am also concerned about where this leaves Hecarim in S3 but if Riot updates his Q to deal 100% damage to minion and buffs his passive so starting with movement speed quints instead of armor pen quints at level 1 is ideal then he will be fine (thinking have the scaling go 15%-30%).


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

11-18-2012

I like the assumption that Jungle Hecarim somehow has access to a full build. o.o


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Handsome Aniki

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPCyric View Post
I am also concerned about where this leaves Hecarim in S3 but if Riot updates his Q to deal 100% damage to minion and buffs his passive so starting with movement speed quints instead of armor pen quints at level 1 is ideal then he will be fine (thinking have the scaling go 15%-30%).
I play Hecarim with MS quints now, it's ideal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea De Penserhir View Post
I like the assumption that Jungle Hecarim somehow has access to a full build. o.o
Have you never seen a full build Hecarim? I've done it time and time again after being fed and the game being longer than 40 minutes.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-18-2012

I've personally played Hecarim on PBE just to make sure that he was fine.

Verdict: He's better than ever!

Get this:
Defense Mastery: Relentless: Reduce effectiveness of slows by 7.5/15% (stackable, not multiplicative)
Defense Mastery Tenacious: Reduces the duration of crowd control effects by 5/10/15% (stackable,not multiplicative, no longer 21 points in defense either)

Boots of Swiftness (1000)
Boots of Speed (350) + 650
UNIQUE Passive - Enhanced Movement: +60 Movement Speed
UNIQUE Passive - Slow Resist: Movement slowing effects are reduced by 25%.

Enchantment: Furor (650)
Enchants these boots to have the Furor bonus
UNIQUE Passive - Furor: Whenever you deal damage with a single target attack or spell, you gain 12% bonus movement speed that decays over 2 seconds.

Zephyr (2850)
Stinger (1250) + Long Sword (400) + 1200
+20 Attack Damage
+50% Attack Speed
+10% Movement Speed
+10% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE Passive - Tenacity: The duration of stuns, slows, taunts, fears, silences, blinds and immobilizes are reduced by 35%.

So, where is the problem? These things combined make him more dangerous because he can ignore MORE disables than ever? Once he hits you, the enchantment kicks in and he never lets a target go. Maybe his roaming speed around the map doesnt have the same top gear, but his initiate is MUCH better.


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GangstaBlasta

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaidya View Post
Oh god... -.-

A passive does NOT make a champ. Heca's passive has NEVER been great, it was decent to just get a little bit of silly AD just for building basic boots but you're building him very wrong if you're building him for MS just because he gets a minimal amount of AD for it... You build a zeal bc it builds into TF, and Heca uses ALL the stats for it, you don;t build it bc it has MS. You build a FoN bc of the redic regen and the highest amount of Mr on a single item, not for the MS. These aren't really "nerfs" they're just balancing these items around other things. Heca wont be hit that hard if you build him correctly.
I agree, but a good amount of the appeal in hecarim IS movement speed, and if you actually read what I wrote, then you would understand I do not build him boots 5 and 5 Phantom dancers. My build for hecarim is boots +3 hp pots, philo stone, occassionally HoG, merc treds, Trinity Force, Frozen Heart for armor, Force of nature for MR, then finish sherialas for health + CDR, active, and lastly either ghostblade for luxery item or GA for defense. So, runes 4.5% MS, boots +70 movement speed, masteries +2%, FoN +8% i forget how much for TF, his E, Ghost +35%, SR active, and maybe Ghostblade active, his e will do so much damage, and you will have enough defense to survive getting focused, and enough damage to finish a carry off. If you really think I build wrong, like I said, watch some of my replays and tell me what i am doing is wrong lol


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GangstaBlasta

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Longfellow View Post
You missed a few things though, higher base MS means higher values from % MS, which is why the % MS values on items are being reduced. Additionally, FoN isn't really super great on Hecarim except as a endgame item and even then it's not the great to where it's a indirect nerf.
tell me what isnt great about +8% movement speed on a champion who gets damage based on movement speed and a whole hell of a lot of magic resistence for a tanky dps who will most likely be taking magic damage


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GangstaBlasta

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackalHalfdragon View Post
Hectarim is melee, so he'll make full use of the new Mercurial Saber. Active gives +100% (!!!) movespeed, which for hectarim is a 30-40 damage steroid.
its definately a thought, season three does open up new doors for hecarim to take, but it closes some also. i will be experimenting with this item, and I'm sure it will be an amazing damage item for him