@IronStylus: I am very disappointed in you and the art team.

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ihatebikeshorts

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FailTsukkomi View Post
But she's *not* sexualized.

This is the point you're missing. Nami is not sexualized. Showing a bit of cleavage isn't sexualization. Sexualization goes far beyond simply showing some cleavage. It has to do with their pose, their attitude, etc.
I can concede to that idea. But that being the case it makes me wonder what the purpose of the cleavage is even more so. It's not like artists add things willy-nilly to their designs because they can. Art, especially when having the theme of conveyance, is an involved process that takes understanding a character and then showing, in one image, who that character is. Superfluous details bog down that thesis. With superfluous details with a thesis such as conveyance, you get things like Templar Assassin with the HUGE shoulder pads? Why are they there? Probably because the designer wanted to do something nifty with no real purpose, which leads to a very incoherant design. So again, I must ask, what is the purpose of the fish boobs? There were so many other venues to design this champion that didnt' add that superfluous detail. I have the same problem with Eliese: she's not exactly a seductress so why is she conveyed as such?


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JagenBlitz

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatebikeshorts View Post
Having logic design-wise in a fantasy game is not a weakness. If anything it gives rise to even more creative things. Go to deviant art and look up some biologically realistic pokemon designs; not only are they good but the provide an excellent example of a balance between fantasy and biology.
It's called FANTASY for a reason. If want to to apply biological realism to pokemon then the vast majority of them wouldn't even exist. There's a reason why it's on deviant art and not in the actual game. This game isn't trying to be realistic. Under your "logic" the only champions that would make sense would be burly, armored men wielding guns.

Not to mention that your "logic" jumps all over the place. You claim that Nami is a "noble" and that nobles don't show cleavage (which is bs, by the way), then claim that her outfit or whatever is impractical, when practicality would the last thing on a noble's mind compared to looking good. Look at what European women wore from the 1800s and below and tell me how that looks practical.


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Gixia

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FailTsukkomi View Post
But she's *not* sexualized.

This is the point you're missing. Nami is not sexualized. Showing a bit of cleavage isn't sexualization. Sexualization goes far beyond simply showing some cleavage. It has to do with their pose, their attitude, etc.
Yeah, I'm gonna agree with this. The more I think about it, the more I really love Nami's design, and I'm usually one of the ones *****ing about the sexy champs. Elise is probably the worst designed champ I've ever seen, but Nami looks really good to me.

Of course, I retain the right to be annoyed if her splash art has her posing in such a way as to draw as much attention to her bust as possible.


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OH NO ITS LU BU

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

He just through down the musical gauntlet


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Varidan

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
Couldnt help but think of your Leona when i read that part....

But well done Ironstylus... very well done....


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FailTsukkomi

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatebikeshorts View Post
I can concede to that idea. But that being the case it makes me wonder what the purpose of the cleavage is even more so. It's not like artists add things willy-nilly to their designs because they can. Art, especially when having the theme of conveyance, is an involved process that takes understanding a character and then showing, in one image, who that character is. Superfluous details bog down that thesis. With superfluous details with a thesis such as conveyance, you get things like Templar Assassin with the HUGE shoulder pads? Why are they there? Probably because the designer wanted to do something nifty with no real purpose, which leads to a very incoherant design. So again, I must ask, what is the purpose of the fish boobs? There were so many other venues to design this champion that didnt' add that superfluous detail. I have the same problem with Eliese: she's not exactly a seductress so why is she conveyed as such?
Because the artist felt like that outfit was cool, or cute. There doesn't need to be a hidden, deeper meaning to it because it's not sexualized, so there wasn't any special meaning to it to begin with.

Elise, I can give you is confusing - you'd think she's a seductress at first rather than some evil high priestess. But that's because she *is* sexualized, so you expect some kind of reason for her to be sexualized, but then there really is no reason.

Nami *isn't* sexualized, so... you're basically asking the same question as "Why does blitzcrank have a door on his chest." "Well because the artist felt like it."


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ihatebikeshorts

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FailTsukkomi View Post
You completely missed what they meant by conveyance. What conveyance means is that someone riding a giant Yeti isn't actually a mage. (Nunu)

Or that a zombie with a battleaxe isn't actually a mage too. (Sion)

Conveyance isn't "SHE SHOWS SOME CLEAVAGE OMG SHE'S A SLUUUUT"
That's the most basic understanding of conveyance I've ever heard. That's like saying that Katarina is AD just because she uses knives. Conveyance goes beyond simple concepts such as "mage" or "assassin" or "fighter". WHAT kind of mage WHAT kind of assassin- who are they, what are they like? Personality, powers, all of that and then some are conveyed through the art and if you don't see it that just means you have a basic understanding of what they meant.


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fertybrando

Member

11-17-2012

This argument is retarded. It's a game. Games are designed for entertainment. Games are more entertaining for men when the women are attractive. There is no reason NOT to give the character large appealing breasts.

The same thing was said by the creator of the Dead or Alive series.


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Alexa

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Aren't you rainbow cuddles?


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FailTsukkomi

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatebikeshorts View Post
That's the most basic understanding of conveyance I've ever heard. That's like saying that Katarina is AD just because she uses knives. Conveyance goes beyond simple concepts such as "mage" or "assassin" or "fighter". WHAT kind of mage WHAT kind of assassin- who are they, what are they like? Personality, powers, all of that and then some are conveyed through the art and if you don't see it that just means you have a basic understanding of what they meant.
Then stop taking Riot's "conveyance" out of context, because that was what their stated goal was. They SAID themselves that they wanted to prevent another issue like Sion being a mage from ever happening again. Which also caused plenty of people to complain that they're trying to pigeonhole everyone into being built a specific way, which is why we're getting more diverse item paths in S3.