Which Champions Will NOT Survive the Item Rework?

12345 ... 6
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Spawnblade

Senior Member

11-15-2012

First off, let me say I absolutely love the kind of itemization Riot is introducing here. This is REALLY going to mix up the game for the better, and make every game different, while raising the potential skill cap overall, regardless of which champion you're playing.


However, it is pretty clear that certain champions are benefiting far more from these items than others. That is good, in many cases. For instance, the new Tiamat + upgrade and the Mercurial (dagger?) are going to make champs like Tryndamere and Yi extremely powerful. I suspect we'll see a new meta incoming with the advent of the melee carries.

Also, it appears that the items in general are pointing toward the offensive style of play. Particularly with stat costs being reworked. I suspect games will not last nearly so long, which should help champs that otherwise scale poorly. I may be wrong here, but there are a number of nerfed defensive items, and very few additions when compared to the offensive.

There are, however, a few champion archetypes that are going to be extremely lacking in this new atmosphere:

1. Melee APs-- While the melee ADs have received a number of AoE complements and bruiser type items, there have been no new AP items for this purpose.

2. Late Game Ability Focused Monsters - Olaf/Nasus/Veigar/etc.

3. AD Casters - I know we were told these were going to get love, but I'm really not seeing it. Where's the AD spell vamp items? The only item I see that specifically procs on -any- physical damage is Black Cleaver.

4. AD Carries -- Not sure how this will play out. If games are that much faster, it's going to be difficult for them to get farmed. On the other hand, AD cost on items was reduced, so they'll get their builds significantly faster. It almost seems like they're completely changing up the way team comps are going to work. It will no longer be about supporting your AD late, since other champs can now be team wreckers as well (and it might take the same amount of time for them all to get farmed.)


Champions in Danger:

#1 - Nasus: First and foremost, our loveable Q-farmer gained nothing that I can see from these changes. In fact, his desire to build tanky items is going to hurt him massively, as he already had a tough time sustaining vs harass from people who stacked offensive items vs. him. Add in the faster game pace and the fact that his Q doesn't synergize with any of the new abilities (and many of the new abilities remove his wither), and Nasus is in serious trouble. The only thing I see him taking away from this is less jungle pressure. Still, it's not like Nasus EVER pushed.

Conclusion: Nasus is going to need an overhaul to be remotely competitive.

#2 - Renekton / Pantheon / Talon / Zed / Garen -- Where's the spell vamp please? With lifesteal now being allowed to proc in AoEs via new Tiamat upgrade, how on earth can these champs compete with their AA counterparts? These champs do not benefit from crit or atk spd either (at least not relative to the AAers) and those are the majority of the new items.

#3 - Warwick -- Same problem as with the other melee on-hits/APs. The upgrade to Quicksilver doesn't help him either. The adjusted jungle is one of the few things that does.

#4 - Cho'Gath/Mundo -- % life burn from mages is going to hurt a lot. Mind you, if his vorpal spikes (or Mundo's W) proc the burn like they do Rylai's/spell vamp... then he'd gain more than he'd lose. (they both have built in movement impairment as well. Though AP on Mundo isn't particularly ideal. Still, potentially useful.)

#5 - Elise - No items for melee AP. She'd benefit mildly from Liandry's Lament (the life burn) but she has no movement impairment other than stun, and her two Q abilities are on relatively long cooldowns when compaired to other mages (considering the requirement to transform to use both.) The only item I see potentially saving her is the Banner of Command. This, however, is dependent entirely on if it affects her spiders (it should) and how much % damage it increases. That item will likely make or break her.

#6 - Veigar -- Same problem as Nasus with regard to farm. I also see the upgraded QSS becoming his bane. He doesn't really benefit from anything in particular, except maybe building an Archangel's. The fact that Deathfire Grasp no longer scales from AP will also hurt.

#7 - Nidalee -- Other APs have been given a number of tools to use vs her. Likewise, the ADs have as well. She, however, didn't get anything except the ability to run Archangels to Seraph's and stack tear even faster (for AP Nid.) There were no hybrid items that might benefit her either. I foresee an eventual rework here.

#8 - Olaf -- Don't laugh. He doesn't benefit (relatively so) from attack speed/crit. Most of his damage comes from his E and having a large amount of life to run amok with. Now, however, we have additional items to remove CC (thus making his ult less impressive) and life burn from mages. The only item I see benefiting him is the sheen/glacial shroud item.

Did I miss anyone?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ecclesian

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Why is Elise going to get hurt by the new item changes? Plz go into a bit more detail.

Here's the build I use to own people with Elise:
-pene or cooldown boots
-Nashor's
-Void Staff
-Abyssal Scepter
-GA
-Situational but usually a mr item, Thornmail, or Rabaddons

Let me reiterate that I own people.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Spawnblade

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecclesian View Post
Why is Elise going to get hurt by the new item changes? Plz go into a bit more detail.

Here's the build I use to own people with Elise:
-pene or cooldown boots
-Nashor's
-Void Staff
-Abyssal Scepter
-GA
-Situational but usually a mr item, Thornmail, or Rabaddons

Let me reiterate that I own people.
I haven't lost my lane as Elise either.

Then the teamfights come, and suddenly you're not able to whittle people down. Suddenly you're expected to contribute CC and damage, but if you want to damage something, you have to go Spider and jump in the middle of people.

Attack speed is really bad on her, by the way. She has one of the lowest base attack speeds in the game, and that's what +attack speed items are based on. You're better off getting a last whisper so you have 40% armor pen on the damage you and, more importantly, your 5 spiders do with your attacks (That is very significant when you do ~400 combined physical damage vs a target.)

However, I digress. She'll be hurt because she is already sorely lacking in AoE damage and in team utility. She also has a kit that doesn't allow her to do both at the same time effectively. It doesn't help that, despite having 6 targeted abilities, only 3 proc Rylai's (and one is the braindead spider.) Single-target damage dealers (mage and AD alike) are seeing significant buffs from these items. Elise, however, is not. The only item she'll be able to take advantage of is Banner of Command, and I don't know the number on its minion boost.

Elise is great in lane. She is terrible in teamfights. Every game I've won with her was because I was able to end it early. If it progressed, even if I was fed, my contribution would be ever more limiting. I find she's comparable to tank Nidalee in that regard.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Invictrix

Senior Member

11-15-2012

You keep saying games will be shorter, but why are they gonna be shorter?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ecclesian

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawnblade View Post
I haven't lost my lane as Elise either.

Then the teamfights come, and suddenly you're not able to whittle people down. Suddenly you're expected to contribute CC and damage, but if you want to damage something, you have to go Spider and jump in the middle of people.

Attack speed is really bad on her, by the way. She has one of the lowest base attack speeds in the game, and that's what +attack speed items are based on. You're better off getting a last whisper so you have 40% armor pen on the damage you and, more importantly, your 5 spiders do with your attacks (That is very significant when you do ~400 combined physical damage vs a target.)

However, I digress. She'll be hurt because she is already sorely lacking in AoE damage and in team utility. She also has a kit that doesn't allow her to do both at the same time effectively. It doesn't help that, despite having 6 targeted abilities, only 3 proc Rylai's (and one is the braindead spider.) Single-target damage dealers (mage and AD alike) are seeing significant buffs from these items. Elise, however, is not. The only item she'll be able to take advantage of is Banner of Command, and I don't know the number on its minion boost.

Elise is great in lane. She is terrible in teamfights. Every game I've won with her was because I was able to end it early. If it progressed, even if I was fed, my contribution would be ever more limiting. I find she's comparable to tank Nidalee in that regard.
People that say Elise does bad in team fights die fast trying to use her like a bruiser... I always devour the out of place champs and melt champs that are already at half hp and are trying to run. Think like a spider not like a lion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ImpTaimer

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictrix View Post
You keep saying games will be shorter, but why are they gonna be shorter?
Probably because the item synergy may allow champions to snowball faster and harder, while some will take too long to build.

Plus they've added more item limitations for other game modes. No thornmail or FoN means that there's no real defense against Mages or Carries.

The upside is that it makes these champs more viable.

I really don't care as long as it kills the meta. It's so damn boring...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictrix View Post
Thornmail isn't being removed. Also there are some nice tank items coming out in season 3.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2749069

Is there something I missed? Also reading comprehension...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sir Longfellow

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I don't think Nasus is going to suffer as much as you think, especially considering that he has a lifesteal passive and damn near, if not THE highest hp5 in the game. Honestly, I don't understand why you think any late game supercarries are going to suffer...

AD casters are getting Black Cleaver and so is Olaf, along with the penetration change Olaf is gonna do tons of damage with that combined with his ultimate passive.

Only champs I think are going to SUFFER per se, are melee AP and Skarner. Skarner will have less attack speed options after these changes (and AS will be more expensive), and along with the tankbuster items and his recent shield nerf I feel he's going to have a lot of trouble.

I feel a few bruisers and melee ADC are going to be a little too strong, at least at first. From what I've seen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Yuan Shikai

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Nasus will be awesome with the new Taiamat as, even though it does not apply the damage of his Q, it will add stacks with every enemy killed by Cleave.

Spellvamp for AD's was always a think most people ought to know was not a solution worth jack waffles, many ad caster abilities are AoE and thus apply nearly no spellvamp, spellvampw as never and will never be the solution of ad caster issues.

Warwick already IS viable and the new jungle will only help that, also not all tiems are even revealed yet.

Also games won't be much faster as, with the new fofensive options, new and better DEFENSIVE options will be added as well.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mj

Senior Member

11-15-2012

where can you see the new items..?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Yuan Shikai

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ego Amare View Post
where can you see the new items..?

A few of them have been introduced by Xypherous in several threads over the last weeks.


12345 ... 6