@Lyte, I'd enjoy the game more if your standards for behavior were relaxed a bit.

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TrolImanship

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug View Post
OP, we want a game where we can play and not be harassed by others for every mistake. Yes, we're all adults here(or at least, many of us are). That doesn't mean we want to be subjected to abuse. Alot of the people I see raging about Tribunal judgments on this forum seem to have some expectancy that they should be allowed to rage at their teammates when the matchmaking system "fails" and they're grouped with "bads". People need to get it through their heads that matchmaking is ideally supposed to ensure that you win 50% of the time, which also means you lose 50% of the time. This means that you can't expect all of the good players to be on your team, and all of the bad players on the other team, because that would be absolute failure of the matchmaking system. This in turn means that sometimes, you'll have players on your team that are below the average skill level for the match as a whole, which means they will do poorly.
Actually I have severe reservations about the Tribunal and this isn't the case for me at all. In fact, I'm usually the "bad" on my team. And I get a TON of reports because of it. I probably receive 10 reports for every single report I actually send in. It's ridiculous. Or I get caught up in an argument with someone who is giving me horrible "advice" (like asking me to gank a ridiculously fed Darius lane that I know is going to result in an enemy double kill) or downright lying about me. I have had so many people make up a story in the chat log about how I'm intentionally feeding or refusing to do what the team asks that it just isn't funny. Or they tell you to "play safe" and then when you get tower dove at full health because the other guy is snowballing or their jungler is there, all of a sudden your entire team is talking about how bad you are an how they're all going to report you. And it's so much worse when you get matched with 4-man premades that I only play ranked games now.

In my experience, the majority of reports are rage reports towards whoever did the worst on the team and not legitimate reports. Which is why I find the seemingly accepted thought that "because they reached the Tribunal they're probably guilty anyways" to be a complete joke.


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Sereg Anfaug

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Bad play isn't punishable. Unless you do something else, you're not going to be punished simply for having a bad score.

That sad, if you're consistently the weakest player on your team, it might be worth playing a less serious game mode for awhile to work on your mechanical skill. If you play ranked, just do normals. If you play normals and still incur that much rage, maybe try blind. If you're already doing blind, perhaps you need to go back to bot and re-learn the basics. Then again, it could also be that you've just started blind after bots, in which case you need to unlearn alot of bad habits, so keep playing blind.

Eventually, you will get better. If you don't, then perhaps this game isn't for you. I'm terrible(~750 ELO season 2), but I make a point of trying to learn from my mistakes every game, and to increase the champion pool that I can play effectively with, and I am getting better, albeit slowly. I can't even remember the last time I was reported for poor play(or anything, really, since I don't feed/troll/rage/quit), although I do have bad games with reasonable frequency. It simply isn't a thing that happens on a regular basis(although I'm sure there are players who report solely for poor play, they're very rare in my experience).

Odds are, if you're being reported, it's for something other then your play.


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AlwaysUsesAnivia

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug View Post
Bad play isn't punishable. Unless you do something else, you're not going to be punished simply for having a bad score.

That sad, if you're consistently the weakest player on your team, it might be worth playing a less serious game mode for awhile to work on your mechanical skill. If you play ranked, just do normals. If you play normals and still incur that much rage, maybe try blind. If you're already doing blind, perhaps you need to go back to bot and re-learn the basics. Then again, it could also be that you've just started blind after bots, in which case you need to unlearn alot of bad habits, so keep playing blind.

Eventually, you will get better. If you don't, then perhaps this game isn't for you. I'm terrible(~750 ELO season 2), but I make a point of trying to learn from my mistakes every game, and to increase the champion pool that I can play effectively with, and I am getting better, albeit slowly. I can't even remember the last time I was reported for poor play(or anything, really, since I don't feed/troll/rage/quit), although I do have bad games with reasonable frequency. It simply isn't a thing that happens on a regular basis(although I'm sure there are players who report solely for poor play, they're very rare in my experience).

Odds are, if you're being reported, it's for something other then your play.
There are many examples of people who didn't say a single thing in chat, played badly, and were reported and banned.


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Futurecat

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug View Post
Bad play isn't punishable. Unless you do something else, you're not going to be punished simply for having a bad score.
Way to miss the point.

If you get a bad score, you will get LOTS of reports.

If you get LOTS of reports, you will end up in Tribunal.

If you end up in Tribunal, you will get "punish" spammed because many of the Tribunal voters use the fact that your case is in Tribunal as a proxy for your being guilty, and will read all kinds of negativity into your case that simply can't be proven in the chat logs and other evidence provided for them to make a judgment.

It needs to stop somewhere. Riot needs to provide leadership on this. The oversensitivity has gone way, way too far.


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Zezune

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taikero View Post
The community is who is setting the bar, not Riot. We are judging the behavior, and quite frankly, we want positive people in our games, not negative ones. I can't tell you how nice it is when I get into a game and people are having fun, laughing, and actually being helpful when mistakes are made.

I'm open to learning if I screw something up, but I'm going to get really ticked if I make a mistake and someone starts reaming me over and over for it the rest of the game.

As long as you're not attacking other players and you're actively playing the game to win, you're good and the Tribunal won't affect you at all. Bonus points if you actually try to help the less skilled players out (I'm one of the few people out there currently running a blue "Helpful" ribbon because I don't just leave people in the dark).
I couldn't help but feel the urge to point out a flaw in this line of thinking.

You do not say "Well the community sets the bar" and then complain when the bar is "Ream this guy for making a mistake"

IF you make a mistake and get chewed out harshly for it, then guess what? THAT is the bar.

You don't get to claim that the community decides what is acceptable, and then exclude the community members who disagree with you and then pretend to represent the community. That is the exact flaw of tribunal and why we have so many problems with it.


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Sereg Anfaug

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Lol?

If you there are a majority of players who think that the "bar" as you refer to it is being a complete dick to anyone who makes an error or has a bad game, why aren't they participating in the Tribunal, pardoning that kind of behavior?


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N0TxSMURFING

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug View Post
Lol?

If you there are a majority of players who think that the "bar" as you refer to it is being a complete dick to anyone who makes an error or has a bad game, why aren't they participating in the Tribunal, pardoning that kind of behavior?
This is a baseless assumption because i have literally 0 data, but i see absolutely no reason why the majority of the player base would care to participate in the tribunal. I'm just going to guess that most people play the game to play the game, and the people who care enough to go on the tribunal to ban players are probably a minority.

Again, i don't know the facts for this, but really what incentive is there for an average LOL player to do the tribuanl? Based on my experience 2/5 of the players I play with daily would be banned by the tribunal if anyone bothered to report them, so I really can't imagine the players I see that complain/rage/w.e are tribunal members with the same standards the tribunal set.


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Sereg Anfaug

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

If you feel your views, and those of your like-minded friends, are more representative of the community as a whole, then it's on you to bring those views to the Tribunal. If you don't, how can you call the Tribunal unfair? You have the option to make it fall more in line with your own views, but choose not to do so.


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Taikero

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezune View Post
I couldn't help but feel the urge to point out a flaw in this line of thinking.

You do not say "Well the community sets the bar" and then complain when the bar is "Ream this guy for making a mistake"

IF you make a mistake and get chewed out harshly for it, then guess what? THAT is the bar.

You don't get to claim that the community decides what is acceptable, and then exclude the community members who disagree with you and then pretend to represent the community. That is the exact flaw of tribunal and why we have so many problems with it.
You completely missed the point, but that's okay, I'll reiterate it in a way that might make more sense to you.

The guy who reams his teammate for a small mistake is not who sets the bar.

The guy judging the Tribunal case of the guy who reamed his teammate is part of the subset of League players who are part of the overall League community who set the bar of acceptable behavior.

Tribunal judges set the bar, not the ridiculous children who get sent there in the first place.


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Futurecat

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug View Post
If you feel your views, and those of your like-minded friends, are more representative of the community as a whole, then it's on you to bring those views to the Tribunal. If you don't, how can you call the Tribunal unfair? You have the option to make it fall more in line with your own views, but choose not to do so.
Really? You don't see the logic behind the argument that, especially with the removal of IP rewards, the type of personality drawn to judging cases in the Tribunal is not going to accurately reflect the whole community?

Does simply having the option for the whole community to participate excuse the general bias of those inclined to actually participate toward PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH?

Maybe the fault lies with Riot's incentives to use the Tribunal system? Giving no reward other than a score that says "you judged good!" is only going to attract the kinds of people motivated by judging others. I might argue that type of person is generally going to be highly vindictive, etc... but that's neither here nor there. The point is, Riot could just as easily incentivize the community to participate en masse, if they chose to. A free skin each month for doing 100 Tribunal Cases? Suddenly the Tribunal starts to much more accurately reflect the actual views of the community, not just a band of punish-minded zealots..

See the point?