Blackfire Broken

First Riot Post
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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
If everything is balanced bruisers and mages would have a 50/50 chance of killing each other...right ?
so bruiser actually get killed by mages in this theori of ballance above .

so like ...is the item really that op ?
That's a very dumbed down version of balance.

So if champion A defeats champion B but loses to 99 other champions hard, but champion B loses to A but wins against all those other 99 champions - champion A is clearly better, right?

So if an AP champion for instance can take 1 champion down to 20% of their hp and 4 others to 50% of their HP within 3 seconds, but a bruiser can take down the AP champion to 0% within 2.5 seconds, the bruiser is definitely better, right?
Stop looking at who got the kill, and stop phrasing things in 1v1 terms. Who got the kill, and those vacuum 1v1 fights are not what the game is played like, nor what it should be balanced around.

Sheesh.


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Metalfenrir

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
But....50% of someone's HP with one Morde R is really fun to watch.
My name is Mordekaiser, and I approve of this message.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
To be honest, i think the item should just have CDR removed, then it would be OK...
Its already ok as it is, its not worse than seeing every bruiser running around with trinity force, or every adc having an infinity edge. You are just one of the many people suffering from "Everyones getting the new item so it must be OP"" Syndrome.


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Stark Midnight

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSpyder View Post
For now it is pretty much a must rush item on any AP.

I really wish they had released the other TT items (that is if they were going to release em) they were going to bring to Dom with all the new AP items.

It may balance out a bit when season 3 rolls around.

Hardly, combo mages who use one spell right after another do not benefit from the passive at all. For example ahri. Also dominion is still being dominated by bruisers all day long. I have yet to see their numbers drop or be less effective. Teemo is the only person i've seen actually able to abuse this item.


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ViolentlyCar

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stark Midnight View Post
Hardly, combo mages who use one spell right after another do not benefit from the passive at all. For example ahri. Also dominion is still being dominated by bruisers all day long. I have yet to see their numbers drop or be less effective. Teemo is the only person i've seen actually able to abuse this item.
Brand, Amumu, Swain, pretty much anyone with a DoT skill...


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konfetarius

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
If everything is balanced bruisers and mages would have a 50/50 chance of killing each other...right ?
No, bruisers should still probably kill mages unless they derp or it's a specific match up between two champions thing.

Bruisers should just not do it for such a negligible cost that playing a mage feels like throwing noodles at the screen.

Quote:
To be honest, i think the item should just have CDR removed, then it would be OK...
Burn in a fire, please. Craptastic CDR itemization is one of the main reasons being a mage sucks on this map. You lose so much damage to just match essentially free SR CDR levels, and that is the map where mage power comes from powerfarming mid at higher rates than other lanes, having 2 gold starved opponents, carries who don't build MR until way late into the game, and ganking other lanes.


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Ahlen

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

The passive really isn't even the best part.

The reason the item is so good is because it is SO WELL ITEMIZED. Something that mages suffer more than AD's, Bruisers, or tanks, is that they have to itemize so many different stats just to function, and in higher quantities. A 200 AD with no CDR bruiser functions fine to well mid/late, but a 200 AP caster with no CDR (With rare exceptions) is going to be useless and do no damage.


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GET REKT FGT

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahlen View Post
The passive really isn't even the best part.

The reason the item is so good is because it is SO WELL ITEMIZED. Something that mages suffer more than AD's, Bruisers, or tanks, is that they have to itemize so many different stats just to function, and in higher quantities. A 200 AD with no CDR bruiser functions fine to well mid/late, but a 200 AP caster with no CDR (With rare exceptions) is going to be useless and do no damage.

It's not even just the CDR and Health. It's the CDR/Health/MPen that makes it so well itemized. It gives mages that edge they've been looking for; though it does make the dot guys horridly strong (after seeing this for myself I have to agree...a swain just destroyed top).


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Infirc

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Do you hear what you're saying?
AP Burst champions are not designed to be as fast, as tanky, and able to output as much consistent DPS as bruisers. Especially having usually more CC, more AoE, and more burst as part of their innate kits.

If the situation is that any and all APs can stand up to all bruisers toe-to-toe, 1v1, then clearly something's wrong.
why wouldn't they be able, Bruisers were an already publicly admitted mistake because when you have the power to counter 80-92 champions with just one character (which are the numbers in the list of what bruisers counter) out of a 106 champion pool you've got to admit that something is veeery wrong there.* PArticularly if said caracter itemization is cheap as hell and i'll repeat what he said, every Jax and his Jayce are just not used to dying, particularly to aps since they could just jumpp on them before and come out with 90-100%hp after two shotting them, they still haven't lost the power to two shot things they lost the power to be massively hard to kill while two shotting things.

*Look at the crybabies at gd crying already about zed because they can't build him bruiser because he deals no damage that way "he mus be cumpletly underpwrd cos no bruiser heard it first at streeem"


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Infirc

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptnBuwberry View Post
I think people need to rethink their math just a little bit. I'ts not the normal mages that are causing the problem. It's the mages with DoT's(Swain, Brand, Teemo, Singed, etc.) that are causing the problem. The DoT resets the 3 second duration for every tick effectively reseting BFT to 3 secs until the last tick. I single Teemo shroom does Shroom dmg + 10% of you max hp over the duration( not 5%.) In swains case since he has a 4 second dot in e can burn you for nearly 12% of your max hp with 1 spell + the spell itself.

Overall riot has given every mage brand's passive and made the DoT mages that were already strong, even stronger.

And in brands case your going to lose 8% +10%(BFT) of your max health for every brand spell + the initial brand dmg. You have to cut the DoT dmg in half or else DoT mages will be clearly superior in the crystal scar compared to every other mage.

I also play swain and i got to nearly 90k dmg on swain and that's a new record for me, since i build swain to 3.5k health and super tanky.

Beware the AP bruisers are coming if this isn't fixed, all the new mages you were trying to make viable, just got outclassed.

The Item is Balanced once you 1/2 the dmg of DoT's, because DoT's are doing 2x the dmg as intended.
Actually is 1.67% per second so it's actually not 10%