An in-depth analysis of Zed

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Mynamewasused

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11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlargCow View Post
Zed's Q damage doesn't stack like that. It goes from 100% to 50% to 25% if 3 hit the same target.
Can anyone confirm this? The tooltip seems to suggest otherwise, as it says additional shurikens will deal 50% damage, leading me (and the wikia page) to believe that this means each shuriken deals 50% of normal damage, not 50% on the second and 50% of that on the next (most abilities like this are worded more like "each additional shuriken deals 50% less damage", not "deal 50% damage")


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Irie Vibrator

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11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynamewasused View Post
Can anyone confirm this? The tooltip seems to suggest otherwise, as it says additional shurikens will deal 50% damage, leading me (and the wikia page) to believe that this means each shuriken deals 50% of normal damage, not 50% on the second and 50% of that on the next (most abilities like this are worded more like "each additional shuriken deals 50% less damage", not "deal 50% damage")
What it's saying is that with 1 shadow up, if you hit with Shuriken, it will do 150% damage, not 200%, and then 200% damage for 2 shadows instead of 300%.

I think a lot of peoples' problem with him is the fact that they aren't utilizing the energy regen from double-hitting. That's where the real damage comes in.


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LordTobiothan

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Factor in some crit, if you use ult, E, 2 aa's, E again with even 50% crit (so on average one of those two attacks crit) then your ult is using the crit damage as well.

Honestly those two aa's are faster then the Q animation and do so much more for his damage. I literally build straight adc with a ghostblade finish for 70% crit and 500 ad. Yeah when i jump on that squishy with ult and E aa aa E they may be dead before the proc goes off, by a lot.

Which means you have all that damage left over from the ult proc, which means you could have bursted that bruiser too if you felt the need. His ult lends itself so well to using a couple of crit items that building straight Ad makes almost no sense.


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Mynamewasused

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11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by loluthuck View Post
What it's saying is that with 1 shadow up, if you hit with Shuriken, it will do 150% damage, not 200%, and then 200% damage for 2 shadows instead of 300%.

I think a lot of peoples' problem with him is the fact that they aren't utilizing the energy regen from double-hitting. That's where the real damage comes in.
That's what I thought, and it is what I did with my math. The person I was responding to implied that the actual numbers were 175% with three up (saying the damage was reduced multiplicatively for each shuriken) but I didn't think that was right. Thanks for clearing it up.


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Nabonidus

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Good read, looking forward to more. It's nice to see it shown with math for a change.

I'm currently not on either side of the debate - I'm more on the "He's been out not even 24 hours yet, not making any judgements." side. But at least it's nice to see a little more research than "I went into a game as him and lost, he clearly sucks".

Numbers aside, there's also the fact to mention that as far as AD assassins go, he's probably one of the slipperiest, and unlike Talon, has the luxury of using his escape without screwing himself out of a main damage source for a long period of time.


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hartar

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11-14-2012

Very well made man. I liked you used the numbers to show how is Zed.


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Mynamewasused

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11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTobiothan View Post
Factor in some crit, if you use ult, E, 2 aa's, E again with even 50% crit (so on average one of those two attacks crit) then your ult is using the crit damage as well.

Honestly those two aa's are faster then the Q animation and do so much more for his damage. I literally build straight adc with a ghostblade finish for 70% crit and 500 ad. Yeah when i jump on that squishy with ult and E aa aa E they may be dead before the proc goes off, by a lot.

Which means you have all that damage left over from the ult proc, which means you could have bursted that bruiser too if you felt the need. His ult lends itself so well to using a couple of crit items that building straight Ad makes almost no sense.
I'm probably going to expand on this thread within the next few days because of this. One auto attack is a very conservative number, and crit is more effective on Zed than most champs since (with IE) a crit actual means that particular attack scaled with a pretty insane +3.125 per bonus ad, and a ludicrous +4.6875 per bonus ad with the ult too. Basically, a crit as Zed during the ult with 200 bonus ad from items would deal 109.8(+1.0/ad*1.25)*2.5*1.5=(109.8+250)*2.5*1.5= 1349.25 damage per auto attack.


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LGFUandD

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Pardon me if this is mentioned in an earlier post, but isn't Talon's ulti a great escape tool?


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LordTobiothan

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynamewasused View Post
I'm probably going to expand on this thread within the next few days because of this. One auto attack is a very conservative number, and crit is more effective on Zed than most champs since (with IE) a crit actual means that particular attack scaled with a pretty insane +3.125 per bonus ad, and a ludicrous +4.6875 per bonus ad with the ult too. Basically, a crit as Zed during the ult with 200 bonus ad from items would deal 109.8(+1.0/ad*1.25)*2.5*1.5=(109.8+250)*2.5*1.5= 1349.25 damage per auto attack.
Yeah I noticed this and as i get more crit ive started just ulting the person i want dead and spamming e and right click for 2 seconds, then W outta there for a free kill. the damage is stupid good and the + side is your built like a melee carry so your already set up to clean up after the battles over.

late game is zeds best area, he can pretty much assassinate anything if he gets his full combo and some aa's. And best of all it's balanced because this burst is tied to his ult so you dont run into cases like akali and kat where the pain keeps going.


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Mynamewasused

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11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGFUandD View Post
Pardon me if this is mentioned in an earlier post, but isn't Talon's ulti a great escape tool?
It really is, especially on that 55s cd, but I would argue that Zed is better at getting away overall between the two jumps (one ground, one on enemy) and the two chances to swap with a clone. Talon jumps in, bursts, gets out, then can only really pick a couple people off. Zed seems like he can jump in, burst, get out, then go back in and still choose whether to continue engaging or leave with another W and/or swap.