Should shields really be factoring in the users resistances?

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General Quackers

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Seeing a 750 damage nuke be completely absorbed by a 300 point shield is really silly. It's also pretty counter-intuitive, and shields somehow being affected by their target's defense values is a massive logic fail. Shields are essentially functioning as bonus health rather than shields.

Shields should take true damage, they'll still be effective without being abusive on tanky champs. Let's take a champ with around 150 armor, resisting roughly 60% physical damage taking 1k worth of physical damage:

- Currently, a 300 point shield would nullify 750 physical damage after armor, leaving the target to take 100 physical damage after armor

- If shields were to take true damage, a 300 point shield would nullify 300 physical damage, leaving the target to take 280 physical damage after armor

Turning 1000 physical damage into just 100 because a 300 point shield calculates your defenses is pretty ridiculous. In the live example, at 300 point shield raised a champion's effective physical damage reduction from 60% to 90% whereas in the second example it was raised from 60% to 72%.

Allowing shields to factor in resistances creates a compounding damage reduction effect where your shield is reducing the amount of damage it takes; that's really... out there as far as design is concerned.

It'd be much more reasonable, and make more sense, for shield to not scale with resistances.


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Zoram

Senior Member

11-14-2012

here is the issue, if sheidls were nerfed, supports would be even more trash and melee champions with sheilds and special mechanics on them would be hurt a lot. Mid game is about burst, but late game is about sustained damage and you need to be able to rely on a sheild to take into account your resistances because otherwise the ad carry will melt you. Doing what you propose would be a buff to ad carries late game and a slight benefit to burst champions.


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General Quackers

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by vox1st View Post
here is the issue, if sheidls were nerfed, supports would be even more trash and melee champions with sheilds and special mechanics on them would be hurt a lot. Mid game is about burst, but late game is about sustained damage and you need to be able to rely on a sheild to take into account your resistances because otherwise the ad carry will melt you. Doing what you propose would be a buff to ad carries late game and a slight benefit to burst champions.
As much as I like exaggerations, no. I don't see how this would cripple supports across the board, I certainly don't see how it would cripple late game tanky champs with shields.

It would certainly be a nerf to champs with shields, but it wouldn't cripple anyone.


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Let's nerf the tanks!

Shen taunts 4 people and has a shield? no problem


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BuddyWasTaken

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

ur forgetting armor pen in ur calcs

also, what ur proposing would buff an adc's late game too much like vox1st said.
with armor pen calculated in, 1k damage would be around 2-3 auto atks from a late game adc with ie, pd, and lw, which would take a little over a second to do.

as for the shield strength, the only shield users i can think of that will be tanky would be nautilus and shen.

naut's shield at lv 5 hits 280, and without it, he's pretty much sitting there in team fights since he won't have his shield passive up.
and late game, a 280 shield, even with resistances, isn't much, since ur trying to tank 5 ppl throwing auto atks, aoe spells, etc at u

as for shen, his shield at lv 5 hits 250

i don't think there's anyone with a 300 damage shield that builds tanky unless it's a lux shield on her teammate

tldr, shields r fine as they are right now, otherwise they would all need a massive buff if u propose true damage on them


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TT Dreadnaught

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Duck View Post
As much as I like exaggerations, no. I don't see how this would cripple supports across the board, I certainly don't see how it would cripple late game tanky champs with shields.

It would certainly be a nerf to champs with shields, but it wouldn't cripple anyone.
Stop being stupid

Janna

/thread


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General Quackers

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
Let's nerf the tanks!

Shen taunts 4 people and has a shield? no problem
Shen's taunt reduces his targets' damage by 50%, which is then further reduced by his personal resistances. If you're trying to suggest that this would cause shield tanks to become sub-par (all.. two of them), then you're sorely mistaken.


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DarkChibiman

Senior Member

11-14-2012

What if penetration was also discarded?

Have shields take on the damage as if it were true damage. No penetration benefit, no resistances. In some cases it may buff shields early-mid game.


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Raftina

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Shield: temporary, can't be reduced by grievous wounds, uses resistances.

Heal: permanent, can be reduced by grievous wounds, uses resistances.

I don't see the problem currently. Making shields not use resistances would just make straight up worse than heals, which is exactly what we don't want.


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BuddyWasTaken

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

late game adc with ie, pd, and lw melts anyone unless ur a tank who built full armor, in which case the ap carry would melt u instantly

a 280 or 250 damage shield is nothing in a late game teamfight. r u suggesting 280 extra hp of true damage is enough to tank 5 ppl? u can get hit by 5 random auto atks from champs who built no ad items and u'd lose ur shield. sounds balanced?

plz reconsider ur post

edit: nvm, it's even worse than i thought

base ad for many mages hits around 100 ad at lv 18. get hit by 3 autos and ur shield is gone