Why isn't there an aggressive upgrade to recurve bow

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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
The lightbringer is bad for balance tbh.

Its fine on objective maps, but on maps where team fights occur, one light bringer would make every stealth champion useless.


It won't happen...for good reason...

Adding the item would take Akali, Kha'zix, Shaco, Talon, Twitch, Vayne, and Wu'Kong out of competition.
How do you figure? The others could be argued, though I think Khazix and Akali have a good enough damage output to remain a terror, but I have only rarely seen Vayne's limited stealth to be a major factor in her gameplay. She usually just gets farmed/fed and hyper carries like any other ADC would, only more ridiculous because of her passive, lmao.
I'm just saying, there are counters for tanks and bruisers, counters for lifesteal, counters for attack speed, but no counters for stealth? (pink wards not withstanding)
The one role that could see the best use out of Lightbringer would be the ADC, for keeping that damage coming. However, you are not getting a lot of damage out of the item, so you are in effect sacrificing DPS for that utility. Alternatively, you could build it on a Bruiser/Disruptor I guess, but you will still be losing that damage, as well as an item slot for tankiness. There are still trade-offs, which is what balance is about, right?


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67chrome

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
and the amazing utility offered would be offset by the lack of damage it affords you.
The thing gives 50% attack speed and 20 attack damage at only 1750 gold, you're not loosing out on potential DPS with the Lightbringer (unless you're referring to the synergy between IE and PD). It's not like Frozen Mallet were you get 20 AD alone for a much higher price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
The lightbringer is bad for balance tbh.

Its fine on objective maps, but on maps where team fights occur, one light bringer would make every stealth champion useless.

It won't happen...for good reason...

Adding the item would take Akali, Kha'zix, Shaco, Talon, Twitch, Vayne, and Wu'Kong out of competition.
If you're getting pegged by the ADC or bruiser as one of those champions stealth really is not going to help you out that much anyways, it's not like Hextech Sweeper were you get perma-vision of everyone in a team fight, you actually have to focus fire on potential stealthers to get anything out of it. And stealth-reveal countering Vayne is laughable.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
And stealth-reveal countering Vayne is laughable.
I have to admit I LOLed pretty hard when I read that. If anything a Lightbringer would augment her AS/On-Hit build. It is funny though, I actually was comparing this in my mind with Frozen Mallet, since FM is more about Utility than damage. Not to say that Lightbringer would be bad on carries, far from it I think. Just that most Carries get their AS from those Phantom Dancers (currently). And yes, that IE synergy was more or less what I was referring to, ADCs just don't have much variety in their builds, and a LB seems like a good incentive to deviate a little bit.


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alaskaneagle

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
With both Madred's and Ionic Spark being removed, does Recurve Bow still build into anything? They should either add new AS items including it in the recipe or just take the thing out completely.
54367

now that you mention it they are totally screwing up my build by removing 2 of my favorite items for it...


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Kagami

Senior Member

11-16-2012

But there is...
3/4 items being added to fill this niche

Quote:
Sword of the Divine
Rapid Burst Attack Damage Item
Recipe: Recurve Bow + Dagger
Active: You gain 100% attack speed and 100% critical strike for 4 seconds or 3 critical strikes - 25 second cooldown. This item gives no attack speed while on cooldown.
Passive: Kills and assists halve this item's cooldown.

Hurricane
Ranged-Only Area of Effect Item
Recipe: Dagger + Recurve Bow + Dagger
Passive: Your shots fire two secondary ghostly bolts that deal X + 50% of your attack damage to nearby targets. These cannot critically strike but apply on-hit effects.

Zephyr
High End Speed Item
Recipe*:* Stinger + Long Sword
Grants Attack Speed, Cooldown Reduction, Movement Speed, Attack Speed and Tenacity.

Statikk Shiv
High Speed / Burst Damage Item
Recipe*:* Zeal, Avarice Blade
Passive: Moving or Attacking builds static charges. At 100 charges, your next attack unleashes all charges to deal 100 magic to up to 4 targets. This effect benefits from critical strikes.
Though only 2 of them build from the bow, but the other act as same purpose really.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagami View Post
But there is...
3/4 items being added to fill this niche


Though only 2 of them build from the bow, but the other act as same purpose really.
Interesting... Those don't seem bad, but really what irks me the most is the removal of Ionic Spark, which while it wasnt the best item in most cases, was crucial for champions like Shen. I hear it was also viable on Volibear and Irelia. Waveclearing will be impossible for Shen without it. Truthfully, I think what it needed was an AP Scalar, so that it could grow to be more powerful than Wits End.
Also, replacing MBR with BotRK because MBR was "too weak" seems silly, since it at least scaled with Max HP. How is this new item going to be any better for shredding healthstackers? If anything, this would suggest that they thought it to be too strong.


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Kagami

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Interesting... Those don't seem bad, but really what irks me the most is the removal of Ionic Spark, which while it wasnt the best item in most cases, was crucial for champions like Shen. I hear it was also viable on Volibear and Irelia. Waveclearing will be impossible for Shen without it. Truthfully, I think what it needed was an AP Scalar, so that it could grow to be more powerful than Wits End.

Also, replacing MBR with BotRK because MBR was "too weak" seems silly, since it at least scaled with Max HP. How is this new item going to be any better for shredding healthstackers? If anything, this would suggest that they thought it to be too strong.

Statikk Shiv and new tiamat both offer wave clearing power as does sunfire cape if you really need it. (I saw plenty of shens in WC take Sunfire over spark).

And BotRK HEALS you off their hp that is huge in addition to killing them.


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JJ Unbreakable

Senior Member

11-17-2012

The Recurve Bow upgrades fit a certain niche. The ones that don't are being removed.

As for your upgrades:
Attack speed and move speed - Zeal/Phantom Dancer.
Attack speed and Armor Reduction - Black Cleaver.
Attack speed and Magic Reduction - Malady.
If you need both, stop focusing the tank or buy Madreds/Blade of the Ruined King
Attack speed, move and crit - It's called Phantom Dancer.

Carries would rather have these items as opposed to Recurve + Recurve = 80% attack speed.
Recurve IS cost effective; that's where you make your trade-off. Choose straight AS, or something else (better).


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagami View Post
Statikk Shiv and new tiamat both offer wave clearing power as does sunfire cape if you really need it. (I saw plenty of shens in WC take Sunfire over spark).

And BotRK HEALS you off their hp that is huge in addition to killing them.
Well, I imagine the heal is nice for the sustain, I gotta say. But what I mean to say is, as far as the % health shred goes, it is based on Current Health, not max health, yielding it diminishing returns on both the damage and the heal with each hit. And it STILL DEALS MAGIC DAMAGE, which was a large part of why Riot claims MBR was a weak item. So I just don't see how they have addressed any of the problems MBR had by creating this item.


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alaskaneagle

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Well, I imagine the heal is nice for the sustain, I gotta say. But what I mean to say is, as far as the % health shred goes, it is based on Current Health, not max health, yielding it diminishing returns on both the damage and the heal with each hit. And it STILL DEALS MAGIC DAMAGE, which was a large part of why Riot claims MBR was a weak item. So I just don't see how they have addressed any of the problems MBR had by creating this item.
54367

wait... so it's actually weaker than the mbr that they said they were replacing because it was to weak?...

am I missing something?


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