Dear everybody at Riot:

First Riot Post
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Zerglinator

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We would love to present more and more data in the future, but these things take time because they are actually quite complicated in a way that is completely separate from player behavior or data. For example, if a company posted exactly how many players are banned every month I could easily reverse engineer their numbers to figure out a lot more than they want to reveal. It's surprising how much you can predict/project off seemingly independent and trivial factoids
My hypothetical company bans 5,000 accounts per month. What is my hypothetical daughter's name?


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We would love to present more and more data in the future, but these things take time because they are actually quite complicated in a way that is completely separate from player behavior or data. For example, if a company posted exactly how many players are banned every month I could easily reverse engineer their numbers to figure out a lot more than they want to reveal. It's surprising how much you can predict/project off seemingly independent and trivial factoids

Policies also change over time at companies. A long time ago it was much more prevalent for Rioters to post exact chat logs of players but we're learning that that isn't ideal--in fact, in some territories it might even be illegal without explicit consent. Many of you have probably noticed that recently I just post language 'trends' and patterns instead of exact chat logs and timestamps. So the data we can present today might be completely different than what we can present next year.

We'll just have to roll with the punches and try to share as much as we can, when we can. As a side note, one of the most amusing misconceptions I see is that the Tribunal is 'my design' and therefore I will defend it at all costs. Little do players know I spent over 3 weeks with a full research team analyzing every aspect of the Tribunal to determine its flaws and whether we should shut it down and build something else instead; during that analysis I proposed to completely re-do Tribunal feedback loops which is why we have Reform Cards and Justice Reviews now. I've said this before but I'll say it again--if any Tribunal data suggests it's a net negative on the player experience, I'd crush it tomorrow. It's that simple.
This is why I love Riot and Lyte in particular. The game is constantly growing and changing. Usually the changes are for the better, but if they're not, Riot doesn't hesitate to revert them or modify them to make them "for the better" using data. Riot is honestly the only company that I feel manages its player experience using data and not the gut feelings of its staff.

This may be because I work in Quality Management where data is king, but that doesn't change the fact that decades of research have shown that using data to make decisions is simply the better way.


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NinetyNineTails

Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
My hypothetical company bans 5,000 accounts per month. What is my hypothetical daughter's name?
Hypatia.


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Flying Lemur 55

Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
My hypothetical company bans 5,000 accounts per month. What is my hypothetical daughter's name?
Sarah


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Ofermod

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
My hypothetical company bans 5,000 accounts per month. What is my hypothetical daughter's name?
Trick question. You actually have a hypothetical son.


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AlwaysUsesAnivia

Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We would love to present more and more data in the future, but these things take time because they are actually quite complicated in a way that is completely separate from player behavior or data. For example, if a company posted exactly how many players are banned every month I could easily reverse engineer their numbers to figure out a lot more than they want to reveal. It's surprising how much you can predict/project off seemingly independent and trivial factoids

Policies also change over time at companies. A long time ago it was much more prevalent for Rioters to post exact chat logs of players but we're learning that that isn't ideal--in fact, in some territories it might even be illegal without explicit consent. Many of you have probably noticed that recently I just post language 'trends' and patterns instead of exact chat logs and timestamps. So the data we can present today might be completely different than what we can present next year.

We'll just have to roll with the punches and try to share as much as we can, when we can. As a side note, one of the most amusing misconceptions I see is that the Tribunal is 'my design' and therefore I will defend it at all costs. Little do players know I spent over 3 weeks with a full research team analyzing every aspect of the Tribunal to determine its flaws and whether we should shut it down and build something else instead; during that analysis I proposed to completely re-do Tribunal feedback loops which is why we have Reform Cards and Justice Reviews now. I've said this before but I'll say it again--if any Tribunal data suggests it's a net negative on the player experience, I'd crush it tomorrow. It's that simple.
If this is true then why do you put so much effort into releasing misleading numbers and manipulating data to illogical conclusions? Even the "tips" recently added to loading the loading screens reach provide information that cannot be obtained without incredible inferential leaps from the data collected on in-game behavior.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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11-13-2012
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysUsesAnivia View Post
If this is true then why do you put so much effort into releasing misleading numbers and manipulating data to illogical conclusions? Even the "tips" recently added to loading the loading screens reach provide information that cannot be obtained without incredible inferential leaps from the data collected on in-game behavior.
There's a difference between inability to understand data and releasing misleading data. For example, everyone who understands data knows that the in-game tips are correlations and not a causal inference. No one implies a causal relationship anywhere and numerous psychologists reviewed the language to double check the nuances of the tips.

If you want to discuss specific examples, let's do that. Otherwise, you aren't adding anything to these boards.


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Tbird

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
There's a difference between inability to understand data and releasing misleading data. For example, everyone who understands data knows that the in-game tips are correlations and not a causal inference. No one implies a causal relationship anywhere and numerous psychologists reviewed the language to double check the nuances of the tips.

If you want to discuss specific examples, let's do that. Otherwise, you aren't adding anything to these boards.
That just happened


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Sharkb8

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
If you want to discuss specific examples, let's do that. Otherwise, you aren't adding anything to these boards.

Boo ya!


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Sharkb8

Senior Member

11-13-2012

@Lyte- I think the new tips are great, by the way, and props to the Tribunal, you guys do awesome work! Big supporter mainly just because you care to make the effort when other companies/games just don't.