Preseason Itemization Preview

First Riot Post
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JohnGD117

Junior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossrat View Post
Darius can now get 100% armor pen, 25% from Apprehend, plus 25% from Black Cleaver is 50% plus 40% from Last Whisper is 90%, plus 10% from masteries, 100% armor pen, Darius is now the true damage carry. Any flat armor pen would put them in negative armor, causing him to do extra damage.

I had the same thoughts. Apparently this is computed multiplicatively rather than cumulatively.

However, this confuses me because the order of the values of %ArP changes the end result, so you could build the exact same items and have less %ArP based on the order you built them? Someone needs to clarify this to me. Otherwise, yes it would seem that Darius would get to -100% then -40 flat ArP and Kayle would be -90% then -40, putting most if not all enemies at 0 armor or lower.


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shadowblade8

Junior Member

11-11-2012

I cant wait to see these new items, I highly suspect unless it was written in this thread (since i quickly skipped over this) that with the possible change in the meta, where like in this years tournament top and bot lane would switch from the 5 minute mark to around 10 "somewhere in that time range", what i think is going on ("could be completely wrong due to this is a guess") is that giving these new item will let you buy them so they work with whomever you may face in this process of switch top and bot lane giving you a wide variety of stats to be able to adjust to anyone you may be playing to from tank to a "squishy" champ allowing you to stay on track with your general stats you need overall.
good luck with this riot "if I'm guessing correctly"


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Doomzors

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Member

11-11-2012

oooooooooooooh


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115

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaverKing View Post
Even though I frequently buy items with actives when I play support I rarely remember to use them. Has there been any thought to designing items that function in similar ways to the passive statistics of existing items but do not have actives?

I'd love a choice for an item that gave me a health/mana regen aura that wasn't burdened with the cost of an active I probably won't use.
Just because you can't bother to remember to use the active effects you paid for doesn't mean that they should be taken out. Shurelya's and Randuin's are some of the most powerful active effects ever. They can easily change a team fight, or reset one like Janna's ult. When I play support, I upgrade a Phil. Stone as soon as I have my second gold item, simply because the active effect is so strong in team fights or even during laning phase as a means of escaping ganks. Since they are taking out Heart of Gold, this means that any tanky supports won't have a 2nd gold item that gives any good effects. Meaning that they are screwed the rest of the game because they'll be stuck with a crappy Avarice Blade or Kage's, as if Morello's Tomb or Deathfire Grasp would be good on Leona or Taric.

"Burden" is hardly the word I would use. Even if you don't use the active effect, it doesn't hurt you at all to have it. I can't believe someone is actually complaining about this. lol


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RaptorRoy

Senior Member

11-11-2012

So what's the interaction between the new Black Cleaver and physical damage over time i.e. Talon's Q bleed, Urgot's Corrosive grenade thing, Draven's passive, etc. Does it proc the armor reduction for each tick of the dot?


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Lastear

Member

11-11-2012

If possible, could you guys do something about quicksilver sash being such a cheap, hard counter to suppression champions like Malzahar? maybe at least let them keep the dmg and just drop the fact that the other guy can't move


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ThatEliteKid

Recruiter

11-11-2012

cool


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Elarn Runejumper

Junior Member

11-11-2012

This will certainly be legendary for Urgot, especially with penetration runes/masteries. I will no longer feel obligated to turn Brutalizer into a Youmou's anymore and a much more effective item for him. Looks like I'll be playing Urgot again after this update.


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Cowmmander

Junior Member

11-12-2012

Having read all of Xypherous' posts, I've drawn some conclusions. Please correct me if I'm wrong, my logic could be flawed.

1. The changes implemented are meant to add depth to the decision making process when itemizing your character. Will you choose to build a Last Whisper and be quote unquote "selfish" about your damage ? Or a Black Cleaver and help out your team ? I believe all these changes right now are done mostly (not to be mistaken for "only") on a theoretical level, once the patch goes live I'm willing to bet a kidney that there will be a lot of tweaks and fixes put in place after data is collected from the player base, QA can only do so much. So don't get your panties in a bunch (excuse my French) because you think that X champion just became OP or Y champion got hit hard by these changes, as soon as there's clear evidence that some of these changes are game-breaking, the folks at Riot are going to fix what's broken. For now, try to think of these discussions just as what they are : discussions. Apply the filter of common sense and appreciate that they're shedding light on the changes they're working on and not just hitting you with great walls of text and no explanations in the patch notes.
2. From what I can tell, damage is going up across the board in Season 3. Not only because of the math changes and item rework, but also due to the fact that Xyph stated that resistances at the moment are too cheap, so I expect a more intense experience after the next patch. Really looking forward to it, it seems like with all these changes in place we won't be seeing many passive games where you would just freeze a lane and afk farm, with the damage output going up what buttons you press and when you press them, as well as positioning in team fights just became a lot more important. The only problem I can see with this - the punishment for mistakes just went up. With all that massive damage flying around, using your escape too early or going in too late might cost your team the game. I could be in the wrong, I'm sure they've taken this into account as well, but at a first glance that's how I see it.
3. Diving into the topic at hand, wouldn't getting both Last Whisper AND Black Cleaver be somewhat inefficient ? Not only are you trading an item slot, but also doesn't the cost per stat point above 50% increase exponentially due to diminishing returns, making it ineffective both cost and damage output-wise to build any item that boosts one of your stats above the aforementioned threshold ?


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ReaverKing

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Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 115 View Post
"Burden" is hardly the word I would use. Even if you don't use the active effect, it doesn't hurt you at all to have it. I can't believe someone is actually complaining about this. lol
You totally misinterpreted my statement there 115. Perhaps I put it badly.

If Riot is going to be creating more items with active abilites AND is serious about allowing players to customize to their playstyle to some degree then I forsee a need for more aura items. Particularily since most auras granted by the current item selection are one-of a kind, which limits which Champions can reasonably buy them. For example, currently the only item that grants a spell Vamp aura comes with tons of AP attached. AD casters still benefit from spell vamp but neither Pantheon, Graves nor a support like Taric should reasonably build WotA in most games and not every AP mid is going to get it, leaving AD casters out in the cold when it comes to spell vamp. I won't turn down a cool active ability on top but a new spell Vamp item doesn't NEED an active to fill a need.

Secondly, its just a fact that not every player uses active abilities to their full benefit so making a few options available for "lazy players who suck" (if you want to look at it that way) would definately be in line with allowing players to make picks based on their playstyle. Abilities based on procs like Sheen/Omen passive, or auto-casts like Hexdrinker/Maw of Malmortius might make more sense to buy for those PLAYERS who consistently forget to use their item actives.

I've got nothing AGAINST active abilites and I'm not suggesting that "non-active" variant items need to be better or even be comprable to the current items, they will probably be by definition LESS effective. But I'd rather have 30% or 40% of something automatically than be kicking myself because the whole team fight might have turned out different if I'd remembered/had time to press 2.

I just hoped that by asking nicely, Riot might consider that there would be some benefit to adding some new bread-and-butter low complexity items to go along with the new "niche" items. Please take your knee-jerk reactions to my own knee-jerk reactions elsewhere.