why nerfing flash endlessly is bad

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lemonpartyfan0

Senior Member

11-10-2012

I seriously just wish before the actual season started, they just removed flash from the game for a week or month or something. I doubt the game would collapse in on itself, or some champions would just become useless.

The logic that champions with a built in flash/dash would dominate over champions without one is just a fallacy. To an extent it already happens. This is how the term "Holy Trinity" of ADC's was formed. Ez-Corki-Graves all have a flash/dash spell already. ADC's with lower mobility were already though to be worse than those champions. So how is that "logic" relevant?

With or without flash, those champions with a built in flash/dash will still have +1 on champions without in terms of mobility.

With Flash-
Ez-2
MF-1
Without Flash-
Ez-1
MF-0

I'm sorry, but out of all the games I have played since around the time Olaf came out, flash has been sometimes popular, sometimes unpopular. Ranked, unranked, blind picks, normals.... from what I have seen, flash is most often used for escaping after putting yourself in a bad position. Those that say taking away flash will make games boring are full of it. The only time I would see that even close to being true would maybe be in tournaments.


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asamu

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horuspinker View Post
They need to buff the other summoner spells.

Ghost + Cleanse would be as powerful as flash.

Ignite + Smite would make another good alternative.

It not about flash being overpowered its about everything else being horrible, unpractical and weak.
False, summoner spells are some of the best abilities in the game; they just have long cds. Ignite is, if anything, too strong right now; it is the only summoner spell that affects champions directly that has only ever been buffed: they changed it from magic damage to true damage. It is surprising how often you look at the death recap and ignite is on the top of the list... Summoner spells should not be the key point in games: the champion abilities should be.
The problem with removing flash entirely is that it levels the playing field for many of the older champions that do not have skills that allow them to go over walls; some champions have multiple "flash" abilities, such as Lee Sin, which makes chasing them nigh impossible if they are remotely good. I would propose disabling certain champions, such as Lee Sin, from using flash, because they do not need it for any reason.

With many champions, ghost is already as good or better than flash: Nasus, Olaf, Darius, Gangplank, Singed, Hec, any ADC imo, soraka, trynd, yorick, swain, AD Sion, Jax, Pantheon, etc... Commonalities in these champions: they need to stick to their target consistently and auto attack, and/or lack a natural escape. Champions lacking natural mobility tend to be just as good with ghost as they are with flash because they cannot capitalize on the flash unless it is used over a wall.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Ok, the people saying that the War3 engine couldn't handle "Summoner Spells" are dead wrong. Hands of Sorrow Knight was based entirely around choosing the combination of spells you wanted for a hero, with their primary basic ability being set for them, and their ultimate abilities being chosen from a list unique to each hero. Their second and third basic abilities were chosen from a list available to every hero; one "offensive" and one "support" ability. In this case, you can think of those two abilities as being the "Summoner Spells" of Hands of Sorrow Knight. Oh, and the game also had customizable passive abilities you could level up.

If you're wondering how to work the summoner abilities into the spell card, well, by default there are 2 unused slots (and by default I mean consistent across all AoS games), and you can always remove the patrol and hold keys to free up more.


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Ripplez

Senior Member

11-10-2012

I never really understood what was wrong with Flash. There have always been a more dangerous and broken summoner.

I'm talking about Exhaust. In both incarnations, Exhaust was brokenly good. Flash doesn't compare to Exhaust imo.


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Zaurok

Senior Member

11-10-2012

My take on Flash would be to put a slight silence after its use to allow counter-play when your opponent tries to bypass his champion's range limitation. Right now, if someone flashes in for an instant CC, you usually can't flash back out of range. There is no real counter against flash+hard CC or flash+ignite because they can instantly use their CC/ignite after flash. I don't think that increasing the CD will do much.


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ImpTaimer

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Why keeping flash in the game is endlessly bad:

-Makes the game less interesting.
-Rewards you for making mistakes.
-Makes champions who purposely lack a dash stronger.
-Makes dash champions stronger.
-Makes tower diving too easy (because they removed Fortify).

I can make a hyperbole too!

Flash does not make the game more interesting. It makes the game safer to play. It's much more dangerous to play without Flash than to play with.

Flash also makes summoner spell choices very stale. It's the "get out of jail free" card of summoner spells. That's why you don't start with it.

The only reason Flash is still in the game is because of petty, anxiety-ridden twitch gamers who crave instant gratification. They need ways to speed up the game and quickly bounce back from mistakes. Flash is the perfect way to do this.

But honestly, you could say the same thing about Ignite. If you remove the healing debuff portion people wouldn't bother with it, because it wouldn't allow them to avoid buying Executioner's Calling and Morello's Evil Tomb and guarantee them kills.

ATM I will never use Flash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaurok View Post
My take on Flash would be to put a slight silence after its use to allow counter-play when your opponent tries to bypass his champion's range limitation. Right now, if someone flashes in for an instant CC, you usually can't flash back out of range. There is no real counter against flash+hard CC or flash+ignite because they can instantly use their CC/ignite after flash. I don't think that increasing the CD will do much.
That's basically what Stifle would do if we brought it back. Make it prevent Summoner Spell usage (except Cleanse). This would be a decent counter to Flash and give something to champions who lack interrupts to counter channeled ultimates.

My personal suggestion would be to make it so if you use Flash you cause the fog of war around your origin and the destination to reveal temporarily.


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GuyWonder

Member

11-11-2012

I never play with flash. I don't see the problem in why it's a MUST have spell. Just play more cautiously. Hell people never even get away from me even with flash.


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Wuuthrad

Senior Member

11-11-2012

All people suggesting a flash item:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Yordle_Stompers

It didn't work


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lemonpartyfan0

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxPlayer1337xX View Post
All people suggesting a flash item:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Yordle_Stompers

It didn't work
From what I read, that idea never even happened, so it technically didn't have a chance to work or not.


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The Untold

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Honestly their just needs to be some counterplay from flash, like the more you slow someone the shorter they flash, and busting your flash on a root takes the CD but doesn't move you anywhere.

For ghost I'd love to see the move speed start out high and then decrease over time like 50% > 20% over the course of 8 seconds.

Ignite, reduce the healing debuff duration but give it some more damage over the duration.

Cleanse is fine where it's at, I'd like to see it remove ignite though.

Exhaust has been through so much BS that I wouldn't even want riots job of trying to balance it.

Clarity, only useful on champions that burn mana very quickly, I'd prefer if they just merged it with heal or the shield spell so its a damn good defensive spell for some champions. IE blitz, swain, or anyone that would use the new tear.