Just tried DotA2...

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iKeychain

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Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulgaines View Post
And you can instantly fire spells out of your butt in LoL, but in DOTA your character has a turn rate that effects how long it takes them to face their cast. That's where most of the clunky feeling comes from- people trying to cast a stun to stop a chaser and it ends up getting them caught.
Basically, Dota 2 is much more detailed. Which is why I think it's a generally more complex and complicated game than LoL is. They are both great games, though!


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Mindllapse

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Dota2 and LoL are my main games that I play equally as much. Here are my thoughts:


Dota2: plays more "sluggishly" but that is because Dota2 has more RTS elements in that there are a lot of things to micro. First there is the whole concept of denying creeps which is very hard to master but is a huge part of the game. Not only do you have to zone and harass your enemies to prevent them from last hits for gold, but you also have to prevent them from last hits to deny you of your own. Also there are some champions that have illusions/pets/etc that you can micro and make an EXTREME impact on the game due to the ability to micro things to block people and stack jungle creeps and farm in 2 lanes at the same time, etc. Sure LoL has some illusions/pet based champions like Shaco, but the impact of microing them is nothing compared to the ones in Dota2. The skill required in Dota2 has much more to do with large-scaled planning and strategy and thinking 10 steps ahead. TP scrolls (something you can buy at the shop for a low price with 1min cooldown that lets you teleport to friendly buildings) make the game more dynamic and make you have to plan for TP's and plan against TP's.

here is an AMAZING example of insanely high level skill play from the Dota2 Internationals2 (prize pool almost as much as LoL's season tournament with 1st place being $1million.. and it's still in beta):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHNT7tZFiqg

Explanation: The Brewmaster (panda looking champion) is being chased by a Rubick (the green looking guy). The Brewmaster sees a Haste Rune (which gives you a speed buff when picked up) and goes to take it to run away. However, as you can see, the stealth wolf minions being controlled by a champ called Lycan ATTACKS the haste rune to destroy it before Brewmaster can pick it up. Lycan then proceeds to use the stealth wolves to block Brewmaster's escape route, making him die to Rubick. Keep in mind that while Lycan is microing his wolves to do this huge play, he is in the meantime farming jungle minions in his jungle.


LoL: plays a lot faster, the role of jungler is to actively gank (Dota2 junglers farm a lot more and gank less than LoL), mana regenerates MUCH faster allowing for more active play, skills required to be good are focused more on split second decisions, clutch uses of abilities, and things like that. However, towers in LoL hit MUCH harder than Dota2, making the pacing of the game and lane boundaries more dictated, and tower diving is done less often. No TP scrolls means that your position on the map is KEY to winning. It also means that later in the game you should almost always travel together as a team. However, the inability to --change the terrain of the map-- also makes the game a bit less dynamic. In Dota2 a lot of the map is blocked by trees, but you can cut paths through the trees with certain items or champions that can destroy trees, which create unexpected escape routes or ganking spots.


Both games are amazing, and each game has different skills needed to master to play at a high level. I used to think that Dota2 required 10 times more skill than LoL, and that LoL was Dota for babies. But when I played LoL more and watched more streams and stuff, I realized how wrong I was. Both are very hard to reach a skill cap / skill ceiling. However, I would still argue that Dota2 is much more dynamic in terms of items, champions, stats, the map, and map objectives. My hope is that as LoL continues to grow, that it will add more dynamic to these aspects as well. I find it really incredible how dynamic Dota2 is while still being pretty much perfectly balanced. I mean, there is an item you can buy that allows you to use Flash with 4 times more range than Flash, on a 14 second cooldown (but you can't use it within 3 seconds of taking any damage), and the game is still balanced.


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Dischu

Senior Member

11-11-2012

LoL was my first ever ARTS, or MOBA w/e you wanna call it.

While I like LoL better (mainly because the engine), there is a TON of things I absolutely love in Dota. The heroes are really unique, you can make bigger plays, and the graphics are much, much better.

However, League trumps it IMO because the engine is the main part of the game for me, and Leagues engine is about 900x better than Dota 2's


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GreenEggsAndSLAM

Senior Member

11-11-2012

There is a big thing i forgot to mention in my last post of why i don't play Dota as much though. I generally play magic-using heroes and therefore in league im used to them doing consistent damage throughout the game, whereas in Dota the spells do not scale aside from ultimates using Aghanim's Scepter, and therefore mages' damage goes kaput and they're stuck as a utility role unless they're someone like Lina, OD, or Lion, who are just designed with absurd damage in mind.

I don't like not having damage.


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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweakz NA View Post
I love Dota 2, but that sluggish feel is a bit too much for me. I actually like their shop. The game is absolutely awesome, except for dat sluggish engine.

Ugh. They need to fix that.
It's not sluggish--it's called "turn speed"; heroes can't just walk one way at 500 units per second, then isntantly turn around and head in the opposite direction without any time in the world.

This is one of the major reasons ranged ADCs in LoL can kite everyone forever--there's no turn speed and their maneuverability is insane (also part of the reasons melee ADCs suck in LoL too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leodegrace View Post
There is a big thing i forgot to mention in my last post of why i don't play Dota as much though. I generally play magic-using heroes and therefore in league im used to them doing consistent damage throughout the game, whereas in Dota the spells do not scale aside from ultimates using Aghanim's Scepter, and therefore mages' damage goes kaput and they're stuck as a utility role unless they're someone like Lina, OD, or Lion, who are just designed with absurd damage in mind.

I don't like not having damage.
Then build Veil of Discord, Orchid Malevolence, Ethereal Blade, Refresher, or dagon (ew though...)--they either amplify your magic damage, allow you to use abilities again, or are a nuke themselves (or nuke+amp in ethereal's case, not to mention making you immune to right-click).


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TenseiSan

Senior Member

11-11-2012

I think Dota 2's shop definitely is more confusing to new players, HOWEVER, once you got the hang of it and know which item is what, it's actually way more efficient. You have functions like customizable suggested items, quickbuy and the sticky item function. In 99% of the cases I don't even have to browse the shop because every item I could possibly want on the hero I'm playing will be under suggested items.


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Dischu

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox P McCloud View Post
It's not sluggish--it's called "turn speed"; heroes can't just walk one way at 500 units per second, then isntantly turn around and head in the opposite direction without any time in the world.

This is one of the major reasons ranged ADCs in LoL can kite everyone forever--there's no turn speed and their maneuverability is insane (also part of the reasons melee ADCs suck in LoL too).
Me saying it is sluggish is my opinion. My opinion cannot be wrong because it is an opinion. The same as yours. I love both games, I am not talking bad about Dota 2 in anyway, as I have over 1,000 hours played on it.

I just simply prefer to quicker engine.


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Skilliard

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweakz NA View Post
I love Dota 2, but that sluggish feel is a bit too much for me. I actually like their shop. The game is absolutely awesome, except for dat sluggish engine.

Ugh. They need to fix that.
dota 2 has better graphics, you'll need a better computer to run it. I can run it fine maxed with no problems.

I hate the shop interface in dota. Its so hard to find what to buy when you don't know what you're looking for is named.
The bots in dota 2 are beast at laning, but when you get to late game they're just as bad as LoLs


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Dischu

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillmaster19 View Post
dota 2 has better graphics, you'll need a better computer to run it. I can run it fine maxed with no problems.

I hate the shop interface in dota. Its so hard to find what to buy when you don't know what you're looking for is named.
The bots in dota 2 are beast at laning, but when you get to late game they're just as bad as LoLs
Yea I run it on max settings while streaming in 1080p :P


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Mindllapse

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leodegrace View Post
There is a big thing i forgot to mention in my last post of why i don't play Dota as much though. I generally play magic-using heroes and therefore in league im used to them doing consistent damage throughout the game, whereas in Dota the spells do not scale aside from ultimates using Aghanim's Scepter, and therefore mages' damage goes kaput and they're stuck as a utility role unless they're someone like Lina, OD, or Lion, who are just designed with absurd damage in mind.

I don't like not having damage.
Keep in mind that in LoL, while AP will scale your spells, your autoattack never scales unless with Lichbane (and that isn't really autoattack, it's one attack after a spellcast with a short CD).

In Dota, casters gain Intelligence and buy items that give Intelligence, which increases your Autoattack as much damage as Agility increases autoattack damage for agility carries (though more for them since agility also improves attack speed).

Just think of heroes like Silencer and Lina, who are both "ap casters" that both have autoattack steroids which make their autoattack insane later in the game.

Also keep in mind that most casters in Dota are useful throughout the game because of their utility and CC (even though many heroes also have high damage on their spells).
But I do know what you mean by the lack of damage on some of the intelligence heroes in Dota -- it is because they are used for utility rather than damage.
Remember that many intelligence heroes will end up buying Eul's Scepter (tornado stick) and/or Scythe of Vyse (sheep stick) which make them CC gods -- and what better time to put in your intelligence-buffed autoattack damage than when they are CC'd?


For example, Queen of Pain is a hero that doesn't have any attack damage steroid, but her spell damage remains insane throughout the game since she relies on its low cooldowns and her ability to survive and escape so well!


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