Item Preview Dust Sweeping

First Riot Post
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GhostStalker

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostshard View Post
Thanks!


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exe3

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Senior Member

11-10-2012

If you haven't already done so Xypherous could you explain the Meki Pendant removal? It builds into so many items so I don't see how it could be useless, if anything I would have thought that Faerie Charm would be removed. I'm also confused over how you took the opposite stance between Regrowth Pendant and Rejuvination Bead as they had a similar relation between them as MP/FC.


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Lostshard

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyze View Post
Really loving all the changes. Everything you're doing seems justified, however the one thing I don't necessarily agree with is the removal of MBR. You explained Ionic Spark, but didn't delve into the logic for removing MBR. The concept is great, why not just buff it so that it's no longer a "trap" item?

Quote:
Blade of the Ruined King - As seen in Twisted Treeline
  • (2835 Gold)
  • +40 attack damage
  • +10% life steal
  • Unique Passive - Your attacks deal 4% of the target's current health in magic damage and heals you for half the amount (120 max vs minions).
  • Unique Active - Drains target champion, dealing 150 physical damage plus 50% of your attack damage and healing you by the same amount. Additionally you steal 30% of their movement speed for 2 seconds - 60 second cooldown.
the item above seems to be their replacement for now


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Lostshard

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by exe3 View Post
If you haven't already done so Xypherous could you explain the Meki Pendant removal? It builds into so many items so I don't see how it could be useless, if anything I would have thought that Faerie Charm would be removed. I'm also confused over how you took the opposite stance between Regrowth Pendant and Rejuvination Bead as they had a similar relation between them as MP/FC.
Meki and Faerie Charm share the same space and since Faerie charm is used in more places... they got rid of the Meki to get rid of redundancy.


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John McGuirk

Junior Member

11-10-2012

The idea behind Sightstone is to enable supports to complete a build (or at least a few extra items) instead of spending their gold almost exclusively on wards, right?

Is "free" wards really the best way to accomplish this?

Is it not considered a problem that wards are so strong that their usefulness essentially out-competes any other item the support could spend their gold on?

Would putting a limited stock (with recharging timer) of wards in the shop not solve the same problem?

I assume you've at least considered this, so why is Sightstone a better option? Is free wards inherently better than limited wards?


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MaskedCrusader10

Senior Member

11-10-2012

I see your point a little bit more clearly.

It is true that I do not have any idea what stats this new item, or any other new item for that matter, will give, but, at the moment, I really do wonder if a 60% attack speed item will make a return in a near future, like SotD use to give....


I really am hoping that this patch is coming soon. Considering that I am unable to sleep due to my excitement toward these informations, I can't wait to see what lies ahead.


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Udajit

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I actually don't like using the reply button - but I messed up here. I copy/pasta'ed the wrong section. >_>

Mostly because it's one of my eclectic behaviors - sometimes I quote people who are mad or angry and I don't want attention drawn to them, only their argument.
Tank sheen?


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Lostshard

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by John McGuirk View Post
The idea behind Sightstone is to enable supports to complete a build (or at least a few extra items) instead of spending their gold almost exclusively on wards, right?

Is "free" wards really the best way to accomplish this?

Is it not considered a problem that wards are so strong that their usefulness essentially out-competes any other item the support could spend their gold on?

Would putting a limited stock (with recharging timer) of wards in the shop not solve the same problem?

I assume you've at least considered this, so why is Sightstone a better option? Is free wards inherently better than limited wards?
The idea is paying the investment of 650 for the item Or quickly purchasing other items or individual wards sooner. You have to make decisions on which best suits the situation you presented with.


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exe3

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Senior Member

11-10-2012

Another question Xypherous. In the past given your contribution to the old Locket you've said along the lines that it'd be a bad idea to have you work on items as you'd turn everything on its head. So how does it feel heading the largest item rework in LoL history and doing just that, turning everything on its head. XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostshard View Post
Meki and Faerie Charm share the same space and since Faerie charm is used in more places... they got rid of the Meki to get rid of redundancy.
But isn't Meki used in more places? The only time I can ever remember buying a Faerie Charm is when I go for Philosopher's Stone.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-10-2012
37 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
Everything you're doing seems justified, however the one thing I don't necessarily agree with is the removal of MBR. You explained Ionic Spark, but didn't delve into the logic for removing MBR. The concept is great, why not just buff it so that it's no longer a "trap" item?
The problem with MBR is that it looks like a counter-item to tanks - but in all actuality, IE + PD is a far far better counter to tanks than MBR's % maximum health damage ever will.

Why is this true?

This is due to the fact that if you look at an end-game build for say.. Fortune, you might get to 1900 health. Why if you look at an end-game build for say.. Shen, you might see him at 50% more health.

However, the key fault here is that tank/bruisers are defined by resistances - not health. Thus a high health-shredder is actually pretty poor at doing so. While MBR will do more raw damage to Shen than Fortune, the reality of the matter is that, after magic resistance, you'd need like 80% magic penetration to make it deal more actual damage to Shen than Miss Fortune.

Secondly, think about the item's build path. A counter item that sits at 3800 gold isn't really a counter-item. Nor does it help you anywhere along the way up to that counter-item in terms of what you need or want to do.

Thirdly, let's say we buffed MBR, who does this actually benefit? Well, in all actuality, it buffs tanky fighters and lets them kill squishy targets faster. At its core, MBR is a fighter item - not a ranged carry item - and while it being a fighter item *might* be fine - its real sin is that it's a anti-squishy item for bruisers that pretends to be an anti-bruiser item for squishies.

So the "conditional" here is that MBR will never actually do what on-hit proc characters want it to do - be an avenue to help them versus high health men - because MBR is most effective *on* high-health men trying to kill you - which means that it's just not a good 'niche' item. It blatantly does the opposite of what it appears to be for.

Quote:
It is true that I do not have any idea what stats this new item, or any other new item for that matter, will give, but, at the moment, I really do wonder if a 60% attack speed item will make a return in a near future, like SotD use to give....
There is an item that gives 100% attack speed.

For a very very short time.

Quote:
Is it not considered a problem that wards are so strong that their usefulness essentially out-competes any other item the support could spend their gold on?

Would putting a limited stock (with recharging timer) of wards in the shop not solve the same problem?

I assume you've at least considered this, so why is Sightstone a better option? Is free wards inherently better than limited wards?
We like the concept of a character being able to 'overward' for his team - but we didn't like the fact that it put this character at a bad spot. Limited wards doesn't solve this - as our concern isn't primarily about the amount of vision on the map but who has to pay the cost for the vision on the map. Furthermore, the linear scaling cost of wards meant that gold to vision coverage also scaled linearly - that is, the more gold you can put into vision, the more vision you'd get on a 1:1 ratio.

Sightstone essentially throws a huge curve into gold efficiency ratio for vision to gold. Sightstone says if a character spends X gold on wards, they get this many wards, but for additional vision, you're going to pay a heavy cost. Before it was simply assumed that the support would pay this cost. Sightstone introduces a 'sweet' spot, so to speak - such that if you are okay with a limited amount of vision up to X wards) - you're fine - but any more than that starts getting expensive very quickly in terms of both slot and gold efficiency.