Item Preview – Dust Sweeping

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Burizar

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Dont remove Ionic Spark


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CarlSagansCosmos

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomis Pervertus View Post
To the first point, any support worth their lick probably would have already had bottom lane perma-warded. Only with the sightstone, they'll be able to put gold toward spiffy items to help their team, rather than spending them on wards non-stop.
Or, alternatively (and more likely) they will still buy wards +this item. For just 75 gold more, you cover all 3 gank ways.

I don't see people buying "less" wards since it's been said Wards win games and there is always someplace you can ward.


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Lagginator

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Alternative: The other Gold per 10 items

We don’t want to see an item in the game that lets you passively win your lane and close off options for your opponent. The other 3 Gold per 10 items have all been upgraded with either much more flexible build paths in terms of what they can build into or additional ways to generate real and imagined incomes. From Gold per 10 upgrades that let you keep the Gold per 10 when fully upgraded to alternate gold gain passives, the other 3 Gold per 10 items have become much more flexible in their final builds.
New gp10 item: Fool's Gold
Builds from: Oracle's elixer, + 375 gold

Unique Passive: increases gold counter by five for every ten seconds. This apparent gold is unspendable, but appears in end-game champ statistics.

Do you see what I see?


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
On MBR - If you were getting it hoping to counter tanky bruisers - you were doing it wrong. Almost every item combination involving PD / BT / IE would let you deal more damage to high health bruisers.

Why is that? Mostly because Carries aren't expected to have a linear damage curve whereas MBR is a linear effect. Secondly, the primary statistic for determining whether you were tanky or not was resistances not health. The difference between a carry's health and a tanky bruiser's health ranges less than 50% porportionally a lot of the time - thus attacking % health doesn't really help out all that much.

Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.

Ionic Spark turns out to be a trap for most characters if you ever picked it up. It requires you to be ahead to be effective as the effect is highly conditional (every 4 hits.) It requires you to pick it up early as there's no scaling effect on the item (fixed magic damage). It requires you to be a specific sub-set of characters in order to be good in the first place.

A niche item with a huge set of conditionals, both champion-specific *and* context specific is an item that will never sit in a good place for very long as the thing that'll make it viable is most likely an abuse case that'll have to be nerfed in the future which makes all the other problems worse.

MBR was never bought by carries.

it was bought by teemo tanky dps, warwick tank and lot of bruiser that buy only 1 or 2 dps item.

I'm not sure you're saying the real truth, it look like you are trying to hide the fact that tanky dps with madred were too strong because madred had linear dmg effect, and potentially too powerfull alone with 0dps item, and removing this item would be a good nerf for bruiser.

because well if you had to buy 2 dps item on tank it was trinity force+madred, after the patch it's gonna be trinity+IE.
And i expect to see a IE nerf, because this item will be massively targeted in s3. (both by bruiser, jungler, and carry ad)


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Sabrestrike

Senior Member

11-09-2012

It's been leaked elsewhere that Deadly Hatchet will be making its way to Summoner's Rift. Are we going to have both Executioner's Calling and Deadly Hatchet in Summoner's Rift?


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acecow

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Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.

A niche item with a huge set of conditionals, both champion-specific *and* context specific is an item that will never sit in a good place for very long as the thing that'll make it viable is most likely an abuse case that'll have to be nerfed in the future which makes all the other problems worse.
How about keeping Ionic Spark in for Murderbridge? I found it to be an incredibly fun lightning...err, item (who doesn't want lightning shooting from them?) and it also helps secure assists on those few champs that have no AoE abilities (whether offensive or buff-oriented)


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GrimoireM

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
On MBR - If you were getting it hoping to counter tanky bruisers - you were doing it wrong. Almost every item combination involving PD / BT / IE would let you deal more damage to high health bruisers.

Why is that? Mostly because Carries aren't expected to have a linear damage curve whereas MBR is a linear effect. Secondly, the primary statistic for determining whether you were tanky or not was resistances not health. The difference between a carry's health and a tanky bruiser's health ranges less than 50% porportionally a lot of the time - thus attacking % health doesn't really help out all that much.

Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.

Ionic Spark turns out to be a trap for most characters if you ever picked it up. It requires you to be ahead to be effective as the effect is highly conditional (every 4 hits.) It requires you to pick it up early as there's no scaling effect on the item (fixed magic damage). It requires you to be a specific sub-set of characters in order to be good in the first place.

A niche item with a huge set of conditionals, both champion-specific *and* context specific is an item that will never sit in a good place for very long as the thing that'll make it viable is most likely an abuse case that'll have to be nerfed in the future which makes all the other problems worse.
Personally, MBR was my go-to bruiser anti-bruiser item, because there are actually quite a few AD heavy bruisers that can make use of the item to deal significant mixed damage, and the role's already geared for lasting a fairly long time. Spark was admittedly, horrid, but stacking onhit items felt fun and effective. It's why I suggested making on hit items scale up, but I never found a clear wording to make it work in this topic, and it was shut down:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2365715

Basically, Enhancement=Unique Passive: Bonus Magic Damage on auto attack.

Items had % multipliers and flat bonuses, that ideally made them stronger when combined, but about as useful as they are now when used alone. My poor wording aside, I felt it was a good idea for keeping an otherwise niche build in place, and I didn't take it too well when Autocthon kept saying no. Sorry, sir. :P


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-09-2012
11 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
I'm not sure you're saying the real truth, it look like you are trying to hide the fact that tanky dps with madred were too strong because madred had linear dmg effect, and potentially too powerfull combined with 0 or 1 dps item, and removing this item would be a good nerf for bruiser.
Nope - in this case, the bruiser in question should've gotten Wit's End instead - as they get similar damage and defenses for roughly half the cost.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
In general, the removals have focused on ones that warp gameplay around itself to the point where no other items can exist or ones that prevents the creation of items that would encourage flexibility in builds.
With that said, do you guys have plans to change or remove the current IE/PD build path that almost completely dictates the course of practically all existing AD carries?

----

I'm also interested in your thoughts on Deathcap.
The way I see it, Deathcap's artificial scaling has weakened the overall kits of modern APs as a whole, because their numbers, both base and scaling, have to be decreased to account for the massive power that Deathcap provides.

The problem with this is that I like to play tanky APs, and some of my favorite mages (Ziggs!) just do not work with a tanky AP build, and thus I am forced to build glass AP to have a meaningful amount of damage.

I love the playstyle of ranged APs, but I prefer trading a bit of damage for the ability to take a hit or 2 from a bruiser and not die instantly, which I just cannot do with a lot of mages right now because they are so dependent on the scaling from Deathcap.

So anyways, have you guys considered removing Deathcap and buffing mages to compensate? Or removing the % AP from Deathcap and just making it give like, 150-200 AP or something?


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Jonabug

Junior Member

11-09-2012

But...Ionic spark so good =(