Item Preview – Dust Sweeping

First Riot Post
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FenrirW0lf

Junior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by serverny JR View Post
With these free wards:
step 1) bot lane is pretty much permawarded.
step 2) early Oracle is even more mandatory to have anychances to gank bot lane ever if you are not shen/nocturne
step 3) most junglers cant afford early Oracle cause its extremely not safe, jungle is stronger, you are lower on HP and you dont have early tankyness from HoG that fit every jungler before.

I'm afraid end result will be "in soloQ jungler will never wants to gank bot lane in soloQ - waste of time 99% of time"
This is literally bot lane right now.


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Trevallion

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Xypherous, I'll be your best friend if you tell me avarice blade is getting changed from % crit to AD or attack speed. I'll be your even bester friend if you tell me it's going to build into Zeke's Herald or some other cool as-yet unannounced supporty item. There are at least two supports that I can think of who benefit from auto attacking (Taric and Lulu). Would be nice to have a useful gold generating item that complements that. On Taric specifically, kage's feels thematically weird. He's a tanky dude with a hammer and a shield. What's he doing with a mage item?

Though if avarice blade was changed to benefit people who auto attack, I could see it becoming a problem on AD bruisers. "I get more gold and I get more damage to farm with! Why wouldn't I take it?"


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thumbnail9

Senior Member

11-09-2012

except where crit is the only form of viable late game dps, as carries without it do not survive long enough to kill anything.


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serratedblade

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Xypherous, I am sorry but I personally don't Like Blade of the ruined king.
I build kayle, On-Hit/ AS and so far have been loveing it. its my most favorite king of build. going 60% W.R. with this build.
Now two of Its potential core items is being removed.
I thought riot wanted more build alternatives.
Why couldn't you fix Madreds blood razor?
And why Remove Ionic spark ?
seriously I don't know what to do anymore on my main account.
It was the one build , and this champion I really enjoyed..

*goes to a corner and cries*


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HotHit

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Indeed - I thought about this pretty hard - and came out the other side with - what is the alternative? What is the set item that you must get every game?

A stack of wards that continuously consume gold every minute of the game.

You see the problem of pigeonholing supports is an odd one - mostly because supports are pigeonholed into getting zero items at the moment - due to the high price of consumables.
It'd be a lie to say I didn't enjoy playing ward mind games with my opponent. If supports or junglers could get a reveal effect like the soul sight lantern on Summoner's rift, we'd end up with a fairly interesting case of espionage and intel gathering. Knowing what's warded is fine and all, you can keep tabs on it to destroy later with an Oracle's. Competing with your opponent in a ward mind game though is very different. Sure, I placed a ward, but you've got to work at WHERE it is or take a stab in the dark with your reveal ability.

Naturally I often end up figuring out where my enemy can see, not just by keeping an eye on potential ward placements but also judging by enemy behaviour, so I can take them by surprise and control the jungle. However, aside from Oracle's Elixir (which I will admit, causes me to try to "ninja" ward), which effectively is a steamroller to this part of gameplay for its user, there is no other way to actively punish your opponent for revealing what they know.

So I guess I do have a question, are we going to see additional anti-ward items added to the game?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-09-2012
10 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
I couldn't care less about the sightstone, explain in greater detail the idea behind the removal of the MBR and Ionic Spark
On MBR - If you were getting it hoping to counter tanky bruisers - you were doing it wrong. Almost every item combination involving PD / BT / IE would let you deal more damage to high health bruisers.

Why is that? Mostly because Carries aren't expected to have a linear damage curve whereas MBR is a linear effect. Secondly, the primary statistic for determining whether you were tanky or not was resistances not health. The difference between a carry's health and a tanky bruiser's health ranges less than 50% porportionally a lot of the time - thus attacking % health doesn't really help out all that much.

Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.

Ionic Spark turns out to be a trap for most characters if you ever picked it up. It requires you to be ahead to be effective as the effect is highly conditional (every 4 hits.) It requires you to pick it up early as there's no scaling effect on the item (fixed magic damage). It requires you to be a specific sub-set of characters in order to be good in the first place.

A niche item with a huge set of conditionals, both champion-specific *and* context specific is an item that will never sit in a good place for very long as the thing that'll make it viable is most likely an abuse case that'll have to be nerfed in the future which makes all the other problems worse.


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Grey Wolf

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Madred’s Bloodrazor - Removed

Madred’s Bloodrazor has traditionally been a weak pick overall. On the surface, it appears to counter high health targets. However, its odd build path and the fact that it does magical damage make the Bloodrazor awkward in many situations. It doesn’t do as much damage as other alternatives to high hit point targets, nor is the build path something lenient enough to let you quickly build it to counter high health targets. As a jungle control item it is surpassed by Wriggle’s Lantern in many ways, especially for sustains, invades and jungle vision.

Alternative: Blade of the Ruined King

This item first debuted in Twisted Treeline, and was meant to be the ‘high health counter’ for ranged attackers. Against moderate DPS / high health targets, Blade of the Ruined King attacks these characters where it hurts the most – the fact that their DPS is consistent over time. By draining a percentage of their current health on every strike, Blade of the Ruined King seeks to burn down high health targets by both outlasting and kiting them.

Blade of the Ruined King also works well for on-hit ranged attackers, providing them a form of combat sustain that is independent of the amount of damage done by their main attack. On-hit Teemo or On-hit Kog’maws have traditionally fared poorly in being able to output sustained damage in a fight because life steal was so anti-synergistic with their builds. Blade of the Ruined King not only fits the % damage profile that Madred’s Bloodrazor once occupied but also supplies life steal for these character builds.
As a Warwick player that used Bloodrazor as part of my core build, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you. 4% of current health vs. 4% of max health is a major difference.

Before, Bloodrazor and Warwicks ult would take 24% of the targets health, just from Bloodrazors procs alone. Now, the Blade will do decreasing damage, making Warwick's ult much less deadly. So, when are the buffs for Warwick coming?!?!?!

Btw @Xypherous, Warwick players hate you now.


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serratedblade

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo Justice View Post
Malady + Pickaxe would already be awesome for Teemos and Kayles.
yes, But what items would actually go well with malady now... NONE
They just removed 2 On-hit/ AS Items for ON-hit builds


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Dr Clueless PhD

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Hey, Xypherous. With the removal of Heart of Gold, what's going to happen to tank Supports? By that, I mean people like Leona. Currently, the ability to build GP5 and tank with the Heart of Gold is a lot of what allows her to function.

Is something being done to help out here?


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Dyztopius

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

<3 HoG forever