◉◉◉◉ When To Click PUNISH ◉◉◉◉

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SabaothYgethmor

Junior Member

11-08-2012

Well thanks for the support. Although it scares me to think that most forum dwellers (tribunal forum) as well as tribunal regulars just think that way.

Perhaps therein lies the flaw, that a lot of power was handed over to people who are in fact a minority of this community, since most people don't care enough to either report bad behavior, go vote on the tribunal or even lurk around the forums. Most players just want to play a game. That's it. Just a thought (that most probably won't be well received). Cause when I think about it, LoL is the only game that has this tribunal system implemented... and I still wonder why. I could be wrong too.

I'm just bummed that this aggressive policing is ruining a very fun game and there's nothing that can be done to fix it. Unless Riot pipes up and runs it alone for the greater good (or not).

All I can say is - Bless those alt accounts.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JohnnyOmega

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabaothYgethmor View Post
I love how the tribunal basically steers us into being machines without any emotions. When you think about it real hard, you may realize that LoL is basically pure PVP game, in other words, a game where humans will play against other humans. Right? Ok.

So, it's not entirely outlandish to see someone (ie. a human being) lash out in a manner that can be seen as negative when one's team is getting stomped to hell. It's actually pretty normal, I think, to express a slight bit of passion in this kind of pure PVP environment. Or maybe that's just me, I don't know. Just asking.

But my issue here is this : Isn't the tribunal getting out of hand by trying way too hard to stifle any kind of reaction from players? Isn't it also just babysitting people with thin skin who can't take any sort of criticism, even rude or brutal though it may be (also trolls on the tribunal itself, getting off on banning people)?

I mean seriously, if you're getting bent out of shape because someone told you ''GG noobs'' at the end of a game.... why are you on the internet? Or does it say a lot about your own sportsmanship that you would want any reason to punish the guy who beat you?

At any rate, I'm just wondering if people feel like me or it's just the wrong community to be in. This'll probably be thumbed down on account of ''trolling'' but no. I just really had to get this off my chest. (Sorry bout the wall of text)

The other side of the argument:

Why can't one be expected to not be a jerk towards other players for most of one's games?

Why can't one accept that it is just a game and stop oneself from raging in a match just because the enemy team is winning?

If most players don't send in reports, then how badly does one have to behave to attract enough reports to show up in Tribunal?

Most players don't actually ever show up in Tribunal. Perhaps it's because most players are mature enough to stop themselves most of the time from clicking 'Enter' on the keyboard after typing up venomous remarks in the chat box.

The Tribunal doesn't forbid reactions. It makes people think before reacting so that they will hopefully keep themselves from taking regrettable actions.

There's a difference between constructive criticism and childish name-calling.

There's a difference between cussing/cursing and hate language that discriminates against and dehumanizes people.

There's a code of behavior that is agreed to when signing up for the game. Players that sign up for the game have plenty of opportunity to learn what sort of community they are joining and what sort of behavior is expected.

This isn't the "public park" area of the internet. It's a "restaurant" where customers want to dine without getting an earful of racial/homophobic slurs and insults from disruptive visitors in the same room. That is why there is a "door" (Terms of Service) through which the owners/managers/customers can kick you out.

If "GG Noobs" makes players feel bad, then don't do it. Surely that can't be so hard? If you feel that players have the right to enjoy themselves through risking the chance of making others feel worse about getting defeated in a match, then what does that say about YOUR personality?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AlternateLogic

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Great job OP!

@Riot You should really consider making this post a sticky and a compulsory read along with the other information that must be read any time you want to review tribunal cases!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SabaothYgethmor View Post
So, it's not entirely outlandish to see someone (ie. a human being) lash out in a manner that can be seen as negative when one's team is getting stomped to hell. It's actually pretty normal, I think, to express a slight bit of passion in this kind of pure PVP environment.
It may not, from you point of view, be considered 'outlandish' to see someone lash out, that is only because it is common. Something being labelled 'outlandish' is a subjective process that happens through social experience just like any other label such as 'attractive', 'cool'.

Given that we have not all grown up in the same circumstances, we likely do not all see things as you do. Now to you it might not be 'outlandish' to see someone have an outburst at someone else when they could have reacted 'civilly' and 'constructively' but for others it is.
Considering that, chances are, you are likely in a minority here so, the just thing to go would be to favor the majority.
Even if you still insist on 'expressing a slight bit of passion', if it could be interpreted negatively, either rephrase it or keep it to yourself, save everybody the trouble.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sorator

Senior Member

11-08-2012

It's pretty darn shocking to me, considering that these things happen much more rarely when people are speaking face-to-face instead of over the internet.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Skevoid

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOmega View Post
"If the report type doesn't match the report we should pardon the accused." - FALSE.

Reporters can make mistakes. This is why the Tribunal is reviewed by people and not completely automated. If you see for example a game in which there are only Intentional Feeding reports but the accused is instead actually guilty of Verbal Abuse, then click Punish.
Absolutely not. It's not uncommon for friends to verbally abuse each other in jest, and the fact that people have queued together may have been made perfectly clear in pre-game chat. If nobody in the game is reporting for verbal harassment or offensive language, then people voting in the tribunal are not in a position to know that what's going on in chat is causing a negative experience for the players.

Also, some people do stupid things when a game is clearly over, like selling their gear at the last second. If I see someone with a 0:11 kill:death ratio and just a pair of boots, but they're reported for offensive language (while not saying anything in chat), then while it may look exactly like a deliberate feeder, there's no way for us to know whether that player did in fact feed intentionally.

There are of course exceptions, people that rage all game and clearly are upsetting their teammates, but I think that punishing for un-reported offenses is not a good thing to do by default.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Change Your Feet

Junior Member

11-09-2012

"saying gg ez"


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Change Your Feet

Junior Member

11-09-2012

"saying gg ez"...................


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

OMG Turtle

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skevoid View Post
Absolutely not. It's not uncommon for friends to verbally abuse each other in jest, and the fact that people have queued together may have been made perfectly clear in pre-game chat. If nobody in the game is reporting for verbal harassment or offensive language, then people voting in the tribunal are not in a position to know that what's going on in chat is causing a negative experience for the players.

Also, some people do stupid things when a game is clearly over, like selling their gear at the last second. If I see someone with a 0:11 kill:death ratio and just a pair of boots, but they're reported for offensive language (while not saying anything in chat), then while it may look exactly like a deliberate feeder, there's no way for us to know whether that player did in fact feed intentionally.

There are of course exceptions, people that rage all game and clearly are upsetting their teammates, but I think that punishing for un-reported offenses is not a good thing to do by default.
I'm sorry dude, but if you sell your gear for boots and you are 0/11 without having 20+ assists... Then you're punished.
I don't care if it was just at the end, it is bad sportsmanship. It's the same as suiciding into the base, it IS bad sportsmanship. This one is just blatantly obvious and can also be misinterpreted as feeding, so don't do it.


I think your list is a bit extreme. Calling your team idiots, stupid, worthless, etc. once or twice shouldn't be punished. I'm sorry, but if you dive into a 3v5 team fight, you give me the right to say that was stupid to do and to call you a bunch of idiots for feeding them 3 easy kills.

14. Threatening to declare reports/announcing intent to declare reports on other players. [Negative Attitude]
Why is that bad? If you have a go at me, am I not fully within my right to say "if you keep it up, I will report you"? It is the EXACT same as saying "what you are doing is against rules and annoying, please stop"...

The rest are fine, but you seem to want to make this game into Hello Kitty World or something...
It's a competitive game, it is a team-game with 1v1 rating system (that is clearly not ideal, but not a discussion to be made here). It is going to raise tempers, get people mad and so forth. Competitive banter will occur and it is ignorant to think people won't banter in /all fairly often. It is equally ignorant to think getting frustrated and typing one silly remark after a stupid team fight (e.g a 3v5 engage) is bannable.


The Tribunal NEEDS kill/death lines. Like "xx was killed by yy with xxx, yyy, zzz getting assists" and pre game queue would be brilliant, post game is unnecessary however.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

OMG Turtle

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlternateLogic View Post
It may not, from you point of view, be considered 'outlandish' to see someone lash out, that is only because it is common. Something being labelled 'outlandish' is a subjective process that happens through social experience just like any other label such as 'attractive', 'cool'.

Given that we have not all grown up in the same circumstances, we likely do not all see things as you do. Now to you it might not be 'outlandish' to see someone have an outburst at someone else when they could have reacted 'civilly' and 'constructively' but for others it is.
Considering that, chances are, you are likely in a minority here so, the just thing to go would be to favor the majority.
Even if you still insist on 'expressing a slight bit of passion', if it could be interpreted negatively, either rephrase it or keep it to yourself, save everybody the trouble.
I would debate your point of this fellow being in the minority.
From my Tribunal Case Review... He is part of the majority.
Lashing out, to a minor degree, is not punishable by our community. Only saying "gg noobs" at the end of 3 matches (only 3 cases) is also not punishable. Yet going 0/11/20 while support is punishable. Playing as a level 1-10 in normal games and going 0/10 with wrong builds for your champion is punishable. Playing in bots games poorly (not communication wise, just unskilled) is also apparently punishable...

Our community as a whole is atrocious and outright elitist. We value the pro-players so much, and Riot reinforces this attitude. As such, playing badly is seen as trolling and bannable.
This is a majority view, the Tribunal clearly shows this.
The forums, as Reds will commonly state, is a minority group, even more so this specific forum. It is sad, but yea, it's here to stay until Tribunal is removed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SabaothYgethmor

Junior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOmega View Post
The other side of the argument:

Why can't one accept that it is just a game and stop oneself from raging in a match just because the enemy team is winning?

Most players don't actually ever show up in Tribunal. Perhaps it's because most players are mature enough to stop themselves most of the time from clicking 'Enter' on the keyboard after typing up venomous remarks in the chat box.

The Tribunal doesn't forbid reactions. It makes people think before reacting so that they will hopefully keep themselves from taking regrettable actions.
1. You said it yourself, it's just a game. Which pretty much means anything anyone tells you in-game shouldn't be taken to heart. Moreover, there's the ignore feature. But then I hear having an ignore feature isn't supposed to enable people to misbehave.... wait, what's the point of that feature again?

2 I would argue that most players are mature enough to let it slide and not care about bellicose players. They either fire back or just ignore them entirely and don't care about reporting. And then they hit Play Again.

3. The Tribunal MOST DEFINITELY forbids reactions. It's the whole point of the system really. It doesn't make you think when pretty much everything you do can be offensive to someone solely based on a small part of this community's opinion which is elitist and very thin skinned. (and to prove that point isn't hard at all, just lurking around the Tribunal forums shows the same names popping up over and over again. Same people, everywhere. This isn't a majority at all.) Hell, the very list you penned would probably be seen as overboard to most players I would think.

The very fact that you can get banned for sucking in a normal game or even an AI bot game is just ridiculous. Basically the model player according to this list would be someone who has 0 negative behavior, not a single quip said in anger, always constructive in his comments and never has a single bad game where his score might be lacking, lest he be judged as trolling or ''unskilled''. Complete, unabashed idiocy this is.

The Tribunal's sanitizing of the player base is wrong for letting minority players judge everybody else, it's just nonsense and Riot has to know it. Also, I don't understand why there is an actual rating for the justice review... if you really care about getting rid of troublesome elements, why would you care about a rating that does nothing ultimately?

Anyways, wasted enough time here to figure out how this works. To hell with this forum.