[Guide] Veigar, The Tiny Master of HADOKEN!

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civixs

Junior Member

11-21-2009

I figured you might enjoy this

...wait...the print screen didn't work. Well, this is the fight summary.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8634/captureffg.jpg

I followed your guide to a T, until the game reached about the 55 minute mark. Then I sold the boots for a void staff and some other things

The game lasted about 70 minutes, and when I looked at the clock at 65 minutes, my AP was 891 It probably got a little higher, and I wish the screen cap worked, but yeah. Your guide's perfect


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Dunrambai

Junior Member

11-23-2009

I've been loving Veigar recently. It's funny because I am quoted as saying "I hate that guy. He is useless." But my friends like when i play him because i wreck face. HADOKEN!

On to business -

I came here because I was curious about runes. Thanks for that info. I've been playing with some stuff. Cooldowns and AP mostly. Blue AP, yellow cooldowns, and red ive been switching to magic pen. Seems like you get more bang for your buck on the red magic pen. Cooldown is nice since I am busy and often dont get golem buff and havent been thinking of using elixir.

I am religious about the baleful strike. I farm hard with it trying to get as much free AP as I can. And it misleads the opponents alot. They underestimate my damage and play style. Then suddenly I turn on them and BOOM they didnt know i hit that hard. And can combo baleful -> stun -> baleful -> dark matter and kill them from half life.

Items I build -

1. Sapphire. Mana + Health Pot. (this versatility allows me to pick either tear or egg depending on what the game and money situation is... prefer egg first always)

2. Boots (I use mobility a lot... maybe im bad but i only get sorc if they have lots of magic def)

3. Tear - I usually have mana issues without it. (egg if tear first)

- I have usually 50-60 AP at this point no AP items -

4. Soul Stealer!! I like it. I hit hard.

5. Rod of Ages

6. Staff of the archangel

- i have 500 AP here even without zhonya's -

7. eventually zhonya's

I do change up a void staff around soulstealer time if they have several heroes with Magic Def over 100. I custom to the builds and flow of the game a lot but this si my general pattern. Most games i roll about 10 - 2 like this.

Ohh and spells teleport / flash. Flash to kill and to get away! (until the nerf then exhaust)


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Deshi

Senior Member

11-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunrambai View Post
I am religious about the baleful strike. I farm hard with it trying to get as much free AP as I can.
Yes! Thank you!!! I was raging this morning; playing with this noob Veigar on my team who refused to last hit the minions with the Baleful Strike because "it's a waste of mana". Needless to say, 20 mins in he still had no AP. ARRGHH!! I was so annoyed. If you don't know how to play a character, then don't tell someone to "STFU" for helping you to understand how that champion works.

That's the whole point of Veigar, he can farm AP like a beast; each spell getting exponentially stronger with every Balefull strike last-hit.

/rant


Back on topic - I like to go with mana regen runes, as they allow you to constantly last-hit with "Q". I reckon that AP runes are probably not that amazing, since he can gain more AP in 5-10 mins from last-hitting than you could possibly get from runes.

Also, you could just buy an Amplifying Tome for 20 AP if you desperately wanted to get some starting AP.


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Rokudan

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The Council

11-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunrambai View Post
I've been loving Veigar recently. It's funny because I am quoted as saying "I hate that guy. He is useless." But my friends like when i play him because i wreck face. HADOKEN!

On to business -

I came here because I was curious about runes. Thanks for that info. I've been playing with some stuff. Cooldowns and AP mostly. Blue AP, yellow cooldowns, and red ive been switching to magic pen. Seems like you get more bang for your buck on the red magic pen. Cooldown is nice since I am busy and often dont get golem buff and havent been thinking of using elixir.

I am religious about the baleful strike. I farm hard with it trying to get as much free AP as I can. And it misleads the opponents alot. They underestimate my damage and play style. Then suddenly I turn on them and BOOM they didnt know i hit that hard. And can combo baleful -> stun -> baleful -> dark matter and kill them from half life.

Items I build -

1. Sapphire. Mana + Health Pot. (this versatility allows me to pick either tear or egg depending on what the game and money situation is... prefer egg first always)

2. Boots (I use mobility a lot... maybe im bad but i only get sorc if they have lots of magic def)

3. Tear - I usually have mana issues without it. (egg if tear first)

- I have usually 50-60 AP at this point no AP items -

4. Soul Stealer!! I like it. I hit hard.

5. Rod of Ages

6. Staff of the archangel

- i have 500 AP here even without zhonya's -

7. eventually zhonya's

I do change up a void staff around soulstealer time if they have several heroes with Magic Def over 100. I custom to the builds and flow of the game a lot but this si my general pattern. Most games i roll about 10 - 2 like this.

Ohh and spells teleport / flash. Flash to kill and to get away! (until the nerf then exhaust)

Alright, well I'm glad you follow the same playstyle as me . Runes are pretty much hands down red magic pen and blue ap right now. I also like potency quintessences since they start you off with a little more firepower. Mana regen is covered with utility spec and either catalyst or tear right off the bat.

I would really suggest sorc boots over mobility though. All champs have a base 25-30+ magic resist, so they do increase your damage quite a bit. I've been noticing lately with my new build that my AP isn't quite as high as it was before, but my damage overall is higher than ever. Even Void Staff is almost ALWAYS more damage per gold than other items, especially later in the game. Especially because with imp exhaust, magic pen reds, sorc shoes, and void staff, you shatter people's resists. All their banshee veils will do is absorb one baleful, you'll still be a truck.

Been messing with flash over teleport too. So flash/exhaust. I dunno. Like I said before, next patch is going to be a big one so I'm holding off on the overhaul update until then.


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Onelöve

Member

11-23-2009

I tried out a game the other day, rushing my rod of ages before thinking about Tear or Boots. Had some serious mana issues (was using a full force page, so maybe it can make some difference getting some mana runes?) I think I have the same problem the few times I go Chalice as well, although its few and far between I actually have to.

I have a question though, and maybe its just my fault, but sometimes when I get a stun off, i quickly hit Matter/Baleful/Primordial for a quick kill or a setup for a teammate. Problem is when I do hit it that fast, it doesn't show my Primordial on cooldown, leaving me no way of knowing when I can melt someones face with it again. Is the problem my speedy fingers, or is this an issue other Veigars have?


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Isamaru

Member

11-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneloveSPE View Post
I tried out a game the other day, rushing my rod of ages before thinking about Tear or Boots. Had some serious mana issues (was using a full force page, so maybe it can make some difference getting some mana runes?) I think I have the same problem the few times I go Chalice as well, although its few and far between I actually have to.

I have a question though, and maybe its just my fault, but sometimes when I get a stun off, i quickly hit Matter/Baleful/Primordial for a quick kill or a setup for a teammate. Problem is when I do hit it that fast, it doesn't show my Primordial on cooldown, leaving me no way of knowing when I can melt someones face with it again. Is the problem my speedy fingers, or is this an issue other Veigars have?

To answer the first problem you should wait to get the full staff till after soulstealer. the reason being is having cat at about lvl 6 makes lvling to 12 easy. every lvl up you restore most to all the mana you spent during that lvl and if you get a kill or 2 along they way you will be rocking at full mana most of the time.

As far as the primordial cd its bugged. along with our stun. people will sometimes run through our stun without getting stunned. i hope we will get that fixed next patch.

To Roku or anyone else that can help me with this I have a small debate going on with one of my friends about a item.

Nashor's tooth...

everyone i play with has been telling me getting rod of ages for veigar is a horrible idea and i should be getting nashor's tooth so i can stop being a "noob" while this doesn't bother me i would love some ideas i can present to them as to why getting tooth is not a good idea for my setup.

Thanks in advance,

Isamaru


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Rokudan

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The Council

11-23-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isamaru View Post
To answer the first problem you should wait to get the full staff till after soulstealer. the reason being is having cat at about lvl 6 makes lvling to 12 easy. every lvl up you restore most to all the mana you spent during that lvl and if you get a kill or 2 along they way you will be rocking at full mana most of the time.

As far as the primordial cd its bugged. along with our stun. people will sometimes run through our stun without getting stunned. i hope we will get that fixed next patch.

To Roku or anyone else that can help me with this I have a small debate going on with one of my friends about a item.

Nashor's tooth...

everyone i play with has been telling me getting rod of ages for veigar is a horrible idea and i should be getting nashor's tooth so i can stop being a "noob" while this doesn't bother me i would love some ideas i can present to them as to why getting tooth is not a good idea for my setup.

Thanks in advance,

Isamaru
As Isamuaru said, keeping the catalyst longer should help your mana issues. Definitely have to use a slight bit more care with mana having catalyst over tear, but you can still do it.

Nashor's tooth:

It has far too many wasted stats tbh. It's kind of the same thing as my argument against fiendish. You're paying too much for things you won't use. Getting golem covers the cooldown for when you're fighting, and getting golem and elixir while you have nashor's doesn't do much at all! Aside from that, attack speed is completely useless, mana regen has better options, and ap has better options. RoA on the other hand is not only horrible undervalued (more stats for your gold), it also has no wasted stats. You need the mana and ap, the the health is also invaluable. Dead Veigar does no damage.


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jonodaman

Member

11-23-2009

Hey there Roku, great guide first off. I'm an avid veigar player too, he's a great caster and has some skill to face or run from anyone, and a team stun O.o...

Couple of differences when I've played veigar though... just for general 2cents worth

1. I never get sorc boots, well, almost never on any caster... I get the mastery for 15magic pen, is it archaic knowledge or something? takes 9 mastery points... which is the same as the sorc boots. then i make up rest of magic pen in game with either void staff for enemies with more than 100 magic res, or abysmal for those with less. I much rather mercury's boots for shorter stuns and slows on me, and shorter stuns = more survival and more casting or dodge boots with dodge runes if vs. dps heroes.

2. skill build much the same, max baleful and last hit like crazy, but i only get 1 of dark matter early, the rest i max out horizon next... i love the long stun time, awesome for escaping early game ganks / trapping enemies by tower getting pwned, etc.. personal preference i guess, i use the stun time rather than hit/miss darkmatter so teammates can wail on them too. dark matter lategame is awesome though.

3. I use rod of ages situationally. I'm a fan of soulstealer, veigar is made for ap boosts from killing ppl, 2 of his skills focus on that. Rod is excellent for HP boost, but i tend to get it vs ppl like chogath or blitzcrank or other tanks where HP and long teamfights is a must. otherwise, I tend to rely or mercury's for less stun time and flash and running in casting and running out, rather than hp. prefer full on mass ap items, or magic pen first, like archangel's or void, and just outdamage and kill them before they kill me kinda thing. if i find i need HP late game where its no point getting rod of ages, i use the cat for banshee's instead. skipping rod if i dont need it allows me to zhonya's earlier, and that gives a huge % based ap rise, so 80ap from ROA at 45 min, or 200-225 ap from zhonya's at 45min (based on 300-400 ap from other items/runes/balefuls/primordials).. style of play i guess

Just a few comments, take or leave . Usually manage twice the kills as deaths, or good games 5 times the kills as deaths, if we have a good tank. I gotta try the AP runes though, sounds like a good boost.

P.S. As far as running through horizon stuns, I've only seen that when the enemy is wearing a banshee's, or sivir's shield, watch for it and spam a baleful first, stun is worth more than baleful dmg imo, especially in teamfights.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

11-23-2009

Past couple days I've been rushing the Chalice of Harmony, then building normally. Have really enjoyed the ability to sit in lane and spam, getting most of the last hits on minions with Baleful without worry of needing to hold any mana in reserve for a stun.

Normally have been sitting at around 40-50 AP just from Baleful spam before buying a single AP item. And then the AP just starts to snowball.


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Tythiss

Junior Member

11-23-2009

Well, first off. This is a fantastic guide, I have used it to ease into Veigar. You explain a lot of things most guides choose to leave out in order to conserve length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isamaru View Post
This might seem a little strange but did you ever think about trying a couple mana regen items from runes so you never even need to make a mana starting item and you can just rush right into rod. I tried this with just 3 mana regen runes and the rest ap. in the end i ended up with more ap then usual because i had time to actually make almost my full list. (50 min in)

My build went as follows:
mana crystal, health potion mana potion
catalyst
Sorcerer's
Rod
elixir of brilliance
Soul steal
elixir of brilliance
void staff
elixir of brilliance
zohonya's
elixir of brilliance
lich bane (didnt have time for lich but thats what my next item would have been)


I remember you not wanting soul stealer for the simple reason that you had no way to fit it into your builds but that you would love to if you had the room. by making enough mana regen early game you can skip over tear and arch staff and go for as much ap as possible while keeping your health and mana still high. this coupled with the fact that soul stealer is a rather cheap item makes it a great ap replacement for your lost rune ap. i will be doing more testing but i am starting to think it might be a good idea to explore a mix and match of runes to come up with the best early / late game rune set for veigar. If you get soul stealer early game then you wont have to worry so much about how meny runes have ap and more about how your runes can help early game.

let me know what you think.

Isamaru
Now this item build, I gave it a whirl. Burning the brilliance potions as often as I remembered. The game was sickly long, 52 minutes I believe was the out come. I have an attached image showing that with the brilliance buff, and I would assume the uniques on my Rod of Ages, and Soul Stealer maxed, I was sitting at 723 AP. Here

I can only imagine the damage one could cause if they had the support of a good rune page. Sadly mine lacks, but I am trying to get there.

By the time I was able to reach their nexus I was 9 higher sitting at 732. Primordial Burst would hit for 400 (+880) with the additional 25%.

my test was excluding Lichbane, Zhonya's is pricey.

Hadoken indeed, luckily it isn't a once a day thing.