Riot Needs to Fix AD Carries.

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DMPuffy

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
The repositioning is so important because it allows two major things:
a) Escape from enemy ganks, which are common.
b) Take advantage of any temporary situation. Say Alistar knocks up and headbutts into a wall, or your jungler ganks.
An Ez,Corki,eGraves can instantly respond and move into position and unload decent bursty damage for a kill. An Ashe will just have to run there, effectively out of the fight. Ditto with most ADCs. The ashe also has no burst damage so when an advantage is gained, she cant do much more than get in an autoattack or two.
Compared to graves who can Shotgun,Smokescreen and use his AS-boosted autoattack.
But as mentioned earlier, the BURST is irrelevant if you cant even GET THERE! Burst on graves,corki,ez is gravy... its mobility that is the most important.


A lot of ADCs suck too. Look at Miss Fortune. Her make it rain AoE is AP based! WTF? Its useless endgame. Double up sucks too, costing mana basically just for an attack-resetter. Doesnt even have a 100% AD ratio!
Draven is a pain in the ass, trying to catch his dumb axes while last hitting, dodging Ez snipes, blitz grabs, jungle ganks, and coordinating with your supoort. Ugh. No thx.
Tristana is awkward with her stupid AP scaling and her crappy crappy range. Pushing the lane with her explosive shot doesn't exactly help and she can't even turn it off! A redesign to make her AP AND AD scaling would help a lot, as would making the explosive shot a toggle but unsure how one would do that.
Double up... sucks? You clearly have never played against a good Miss Fortune. You can easily take 50-60% of someone's HP in one double up and 2 attacks mid-game, and it's devastating if you start to zone them early. Not to mention her W gives her one of the strongest level 1's in the entire game. If you have an aggressive Taric, Alistar, or Leona, you can VERY easily kill someone in one stun if they're around 80%.


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Dpaladinx

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Tristana is awkward with her stupid AP scaling and her crappy crappy range. Pushing the lane with her explosive shot doesn't exactly help and she can't even turn it off! A redesign to make her AP AND AD scaling would help a lot, as would making the explosive shot a toggle but unsure how one would do that.
You do realize that her range increases as she levels up do ya. Her early game is strong, but risky (if you max her W first with two to three points on her E). Her mid game is total ****, but her late game is a total beast.

Even so, she does need a good offensive support to be very effective. Like I said in the earlier posts and threads, repositioning and burst damage doesn't mean anything when the enemy you face someone who has long range (particularly those with pass-through skillshots like Xerath). In most cases, having long range is more important than positioning and spike damage potential because positioning and spike damage have little value if you get easily outranged by Kogmaw and Tristana.


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Shiroikiri

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Senior Member

11-08-2012

I love how everyone is still forgetting about Twitch as an adc.


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barbeerian

Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSZHUNG View Post
the key thing about these ad carries and what makes them popular isn't the burst. burst is good but then everyone would be playing aps rather than ads.

what makes them stand out (in my opinion) is their instant repositioning abilities. it's common knowledge that positioning is the key to any good AD carry. most other AD carries only have flash as their repositioning tool. when you play ez, graves or corki you essentially have a flash on a 10-second cooldown, which is invaluable in many situations.

get caught? get out. teamfight? chase down the guy that's low.

if tristana's abilities scaled with ad instead of ap, i'd wager that she'd see a lot more play as well.
IMHO it's not just the escape moves (though that is definitely is a big part of why they're the holy trinity of ADC's). It's the fact that they basically have no weaknesses in any area that's important for an ADC, doesn't mean they're the best at everything they just don't have a giant exploitable weakness.

-All 3 have great escape moves as mentioned, much easier to avoid dying with them that's for sure.
-All have great long range pokes.
-All have long range AoE/Multi-target Ults.
-All have passives that synergize greatly with their role.
-All have a steroid that increases their damage beyond their items.


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Directw

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolde View Post
Uh... no she doesn't. I think maybe a very small percentage of the time she is, but that's only in very extreme circumstances.It doesn't really apply to Graves who can close a gap really easily and be close enough to keep auto attacking you immediately after.
I hardly play Grave and I haven't play Sivir that much since her remake. However, if I remember it correctly, lv1 Sivir can take out up to 1/3 of HP and Sivir at lv2 can take out up to 1/2. However, I must emphasize the phrase I used, "non-moving target".

IMO, Sivir, Ash, and Kog are three with the least fault tolerance, especially Sivir. I think that is the main reason why she is not as popular as other ADC.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Early game, Sivir has slightly better burst if you land clean double hits on both her Q and W.
The remake allows her to double-hit with her W because it resets her auto attack timer. So Q, auto attack, W to reset and AA again.

Graves has superior burst once he has his ultimate.

Grave's higher burst damage also requires that he get in extra close so he can hit you with more than 1 piece of buckshot.

So, level 1 burst goes to Graves,
But level 2 burst goes to Sivir
From there on out, it stays mostly with Sivir until level 6.

Again, key thing to note is that Sivir's max burst is hard to land due to the nature of Boomerang blade and Grave's max burst requires that he be at point blank range so he can hit you with all 3 pieces of his Q.

Both are high skill cap champions.

As for "low fault tollerance" Sivir's fault tolerance is actually straight down the middle with regards to other ranged ADs. While she may not have an escape/re-position ability like Ez, Graves, and Vayne, she does pack a spell shield which is a far cry from having no defensive maneuvers like Kog and Ashe.

But yeah, her burst damage easily rivals that of Grave's and her spell shield allows her to escape some really awesome stuff that even dash/blink abilities won't get you out of. Like say...a Naut ulti bearing down on you or a targeted stun from Taric, or my personal favorite: a Darius ulti. You see him jump into the air, you smash E and watch as he wastes his ability.


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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

11-09-2012

i still think instant repositioning wins over spellshield.

spellshield might save your life once, but when 4 enemies are on you it doesn't help much. an instant blink putting you a distance away from them will.

in addition, spellshield is useless in a teamfight, while instant repositioning to hit that ad or ap carry is much more useful.


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dirtysanchez1

Senior Member

11-09-2012

People are dropping Corki for Vayne now as she's becoming the new FotM AD Carry. Fortunately, for all of us, about 30% of Vayne players actually know how to play Vayne properly, just like how hardly anyone knew how to use Corki, so, if you're good, it's a free win for your team.

I've been seeing Caitlin a lot lately and just went up against a Kog'Maw as Vayne. A few games ago there was a Miss Fortune who absolutely destroyed me. I supported a Graves as Sona two games ago and got him so fed he'd 1v5 their team without me at their base. Things are changing!


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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ************1 View Post
People are dropping Corki for Vayne now as she's becoming the new FotM AD Carry. Fortunately, for all of us, about 30% of Vayne players actually know how to play Vayne properly, just like how hardly anyone knew how to use Corki, so, if you're good, it's a free win for your team.

I've been seeing Caitlin a lot lately and just went up against a Kog'Maw as Vayne. A few games ago there was a Miss Fortune who absolutely destroyed me. I supported a Graves as Sona two games ago and got him so fed he'd 1v5 their team without me at their base. Things are changing!
i think you've been seeing caitlyn a lot beause she's free this week. i rarely see caitlyn when she isn't free.

to be honest, i'm 50/50 when i see a vayne. they tend to be on the extremes of either very good, or completely useless.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSZHUNG View Post
i still think instant repositioning wins over spellshield.

spellshield might save your life once, but when 4 enemies are on you it doesn't help much. an instant blink putting you a distance away from them will.

in addition, spellshield is useless in a teamfight, while instant repositioning to hit that ad or ap carry is much more useful.
Late game yes, instant reposition does win over spell shield, but early game Sivir's spell shield also provides mana sustain, which allows her to dominate opponents with her spells.

It's actually the reason why Sivir counter's graves. Not only does the shield stop the burst, it also regenerates her mana. So long after Graves has blown all of his mana, Sivir will still be topped off and chucking BBs.

One of the other benefits of spell shield is that it doesn't interrupt her actions nor does it delay other actions. Graves, Ez, Vayne, their mobility abilities all interrupt their actions and provide a small delay to their current auto attacks.

The reality is that if you're good with your positioning, you won't need to reposition. A lot of players say that Flash is a crutch for bad positioning, and it's true. There have been games where I've been on my A game and I never touched the flash button once. So if you master that, and you use spell shield instead to block things and maintain your positioning, you'll be fine.

And again, having a spell shield instead of a reposition is still better than having neither (looking at Ashe and Kog)


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