@Riot: Buff Eleisa's Miracle or remove it.

First Riot Post
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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-08-2012
19 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
As a dominion player, please remove the revive cooldown - It reminds me too much of priscillas where too many teammates would spend their first 1600g on regen on a map where regen really isn't very valuable because 'zomg it makes me cap faster'.
When I ran the math on this item for the typical Dominion match - It amounted to one extra Revive at the cost of 1100 gold - if you got it before the 7 minute mark.

Which means that if you don't get mileage out of the Heal / Regeneration passives from being a bot-laner, for example - This item would be highly discouraged. Essentially, the only character who would be able to pick this up and not suffer are Revive/Farm/Stall bot-laners - which is an acceptible niche, in my opinion.

Windmill or Roamers don't get much mileage out of regeneration and they definitely shouldn't pick this up before 7 minutes - otherwise they're giving up a huge amount of combat statistics. If you're picking this item up *after* 7 minutes - it doesn't matter. The 20% Revive passive won't actually give you any more revives due to how Revive's CD is calculated when you use it.

So - the only person you could probably "get away" with getting an extra revive on is bottom lane, which I think is actually kind of interesting from a strategic perspective as bot lane chara need more excuses to transition out after they've farmed the game.


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CarlSagansCosmos

Senior Member

11-08-2012

(on the off chance he'll come back by here)

The ONLY thing I don't like about this, is that it's building from the philo. stone. Unless there is some way to give back that 1/10 there doesn't seem to be a reason to buy this.

1) If I buy it early I lose my 1/10 gold. Considering this is one of the few ways I get gold.

2) If I do what I do now (one of the last items to upgrade), there are going to be many times I'll be <15 at which point this is no longer a route I want to take.

I love the idea, but please, if you're going to make it an upgrade, don't make it something that makes the game less fun for me (Less gold = less fun)

Why not make it:

Unique Passive: If you use Heal, Clairvoyance or Revive 3x while holding Eleisa's Miracle, you gain 10 HP/5, 15 MP/5 and the Aid Passive permanently and the item disappears from your inventory.


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ViolentlyCar

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
When I ran the math on this item for the typical Dominion match - It amounted to one extra Revive at the cost of 1100 gold - if you got it before the 7 minute mark.

Which means that if you don't get mileage out of the Heal / Regeneration passives from being a bot-laner, for example - This item would be highly discouraged. Essentially, the only character who would be able to pick this up and not suffer are Revive/Farm/Stall bot-laners - which is an acceptible niche, in my opinion.

Windmill or Roamers don't get much mileage out of regeneration and they definitely shouldn't pick this up before 7 minutes - otherwise they're giving up a huge amount of combat statistics. If you're picking this item up *after* 7 minutes - it doesn't matter. The 20% Revive passive won't actually give you any more revives due to how Revive's CD is calculated when you use it.

So - the only person you could probably "get away" with getting an extra revive on is bottom lane, which I think is actually kind of interesting from a strategic perspective as bot lane chara need more excuses to transition out after they've farmed the game.
As a high Elo Dom player, I would pay 1,100 for an extra revive even if it didn't come with the other stats, no questions asked.


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Darians Bane

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Senior Member

11-08-2012

@Xypherous

Do you think YOU would buy it whilst supporting?


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Amuq the Native

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Hey Xypherous,
Regarding Tenacity, you're saying Merc Threads should be enough while you guys investigate other possibilities.
I quite agree... except for one character: Singed.

I might be doing it wrong, but the only use I have found for current Eleisa's Miracle is to give Singed some Tenacity (and nice regeneration), because I like to build Boots of Swiftness on him : I want to make my Singed as fast as possible, even if it means forsaking tenacity on the boots.

Singed is the only character on which I will ever build those two items - Boots of Swiftness and Eleisa's Miracle - but on him I feel they are really justified and complementary. It's very, very niche, but if I can't have them, my Singed will be a very, very sad alchemist.

I hope that Season 3 will still have at least one alternative option for Tenacity, so I can still buy other boots than Merc Threads when I need them.


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Fallenour

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
To be fair, it's still probably not the greatest buy unless you have Summoner Heal - but hey, experiments are experiments. I just know that somehow - whenever I play support, I seem to run out of inventory slots *really* quickly with all the miscellaneous consumables I'm pulling about.
summoner heal is good if your support.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
When I ran the math on this item for the typical Dominion match - It amounted to one extra Revive at the cost of 1100 gold - if you got it before the 7 minute mark.

Which means that if you don't get mileage out of the Heal / Regeneration passives from being a bot-laner, for example - This item would be highly discouraged. Essentially, the only character who would be able to pick this up and not suffer are Revive/Farm/Stall bot-laners - which is an acceptible niche, in my opinion.

Windmill or Roamers don't get much mileage out of regeneration and they definitely shouldn't pick this up before 7 minutes - otherwise they're giving up a huge amount of combat statistics. If you're picking this item up *after* 7 minutes - it doesn't matter. The 20% Revive passive won't actually give you any more revives due to how Revive's CD is calculated when you use it.

So - the only person you could probably "get away" with getting an extra revive on is bottom lane, which I think is actually kind of interesting from a strategic perspective as bot lane chara need more excuses to transition out after they've farmed the game.
Very briefly: It's still available 2 minutes earlier. That's 2 potential strategic minutes you can utilize where you wouldn't be able to before.

Also, even one Revive is very powerful.

While I trust you to do a great job (how cow that Seraph's item looks like an awesome idea and a surprisingly elegant solution to the "what do with all this mana" problem,) I would like to play devil's advocate and ensure that this doesn't break Dom in two :P. Just in case, after all.

Incidentally, I wonder if you could team up with RiotNome, Vesh and two other reds to make a Rioters entry for DominateDominion 30? :P.


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AntHill

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Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
And reduce SoTD's cooldown.
so your saying we get this godly ad tf item back?


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HappilySoulbound

Junior Member

11-08-2012

Speaking as someone who mains support, I always like new innovation. However, I'm not a huge fan of this item. I want it early in many ways since it gives me lane sustain and a great passive to help my laning partner out with (if I have heal) or my team out with (if I have CV). But I don't have the G5 passive anymore if I rush it. This bites. I would rather the G5 passive stay with the item, but when the item disappears, the G5 passive goes too. That way, I get the lane sustain and money while also knowing I get a free slot later on. This would make people choose between this and the SR, as the SR (which is an epic support item) would cost more if you rush the Miracle. So you would trade for a better laning phase and late game with the Miracle while sacrificing a bit of the mid game since you're playing catch up building the SR. These kind of choices would help make supporting much more of a mind game since right now it's just build an SR, boots, an AoL, wards, and anything else. But with these kinds of choices, selecting the right items to help your team is key. Is your team bad in mid game? Get a SR to help them avoid bad fights. Getting harassed in lane to the point where it's a huge problem, go the Miracle route knowing that the SR will be delayed. Just some musing on the matter.


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MK80A

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Xyph, whether this proposed item needs tweaking or not I really love the creative approach! Looking forward to seeing the S3 patch when it comes.