Constructive Criticism for new TT. Go!

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Battleaxe19

Junior Member

11-07-2012

League cant stay the same. It has to evolve. the fact that Riot is trying new things like the altars is fantastic, and is the only way league can continue to grow at the rate it's growing. Don't like the new TT? don't play it. Leave. Go play something else. Or you could wipe that hurt off of your butt and try giving some constructive criticism.

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM GO!


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Omesh

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Threads like this are the best threads. We need more threads like them.


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Exqzr

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omesh View Post
Threads like this are the best threads. We need more threads like them.

Its a horrible thread and clearly biased.

You are also clearly biased.

Even if you like the new map. There is no reason Riot can not provide both.

Let the customer choose which map they prefer.

What is complicated about this?

You post in the petition forum in response to mine was well thought out but honestly it's naive.


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Omesh

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
Its a horrible thread and clearly biased.
...well, that didn't take long. I don't get why constructive criticism is a horrible thing. Can you explain? I mean, I like the map, but it still needs some work. Vilemaw, for example, is in a weird place where he often gets ignored because it's usually just smarter to push and maintain altar control than it is to take him down. And the altar timers should be reviewed.

Quote:
You are also clearly biased.
So are you. Pot kettle black and such.

Quote:
Even if you like the new map. There is no reason Riot can not provide both.
Giving the customer everything they want isn't exactly how businesses thrive. If I gave my customers every single thing they want, I'd be rewriting code in the software I use nearly every week and completely shifting the scope/scale of my product. That's not good for my product. Sometimes, in fact oftentimes, a business should stand behind the product they offer without having to cow-tow to every customer demand.

The problem with doing that is that eventually you stop moving forward and innovating and you get stuck in a mire where you're overhauling your original vision for your product. If your product is a total disaster, this makes sense, but I think calling SI Treeline a total disaster is a huge stretch.

Quote:
Let the customer choose which map they prefer.
Again, if I let my customers have their way on everything, I would never get anything done. Letting customers choose within reason is exactly what a business should do, but beyond that I think

Quote:
What is complicated about this?
What's complicated about what I'm saying?

Quote:
You post in the petition forum in response to mine was well thought out but honestly it's naive.
Now I'm confused. Naive but well thought-out? Do you see the tension there?


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Regards

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exqzr View Post
Its a horrible thread and clearly biased.

You are also clearly biased.

Even if you like the new map. There is no reason Riot can not provide both.

Let the customer choose which map they prefer.

What is complicated about this?

You post in the petition forum in response to mine was well thought out but honestly it's naive.
There's a few problems with this post...

Quote:
Its a horrible thread and clearly biased.
You are also clearly biased.
They're obviously biased, but the thread isn't. It's creating a discussion around a map, not arguing whether one is better or not.

Quote:
Even if you like the new map. There is no reason Riot can not provide both.
Well this is possibly true, possibly not. It takes a lot of space and resources to keep a map within the client. Riot has already stated that they can't have more than 2 skins of the Summoners Rift map because of how much space it would take. I can't imagine what that would be like with an entire map. If you're looking for a practical reason, that might be one.

Quote:
Let the customer choose which map they prefer.
I think you're confusing customer and Forum member, because really the only evidence and numbers you can look at is a poll from the forums. You have no details on how many more or less players are playing on the map or are being "customers" of the map. For all that's really known, the customer IS choosing the map.


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Omesh

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Okay, well, here's some constructive criticism to start:

*Minion pathing/creep blocking. This has to be fixed. There's a post about this going around right now, but too often I'll click to last hit and wind up getting stuck on creeps as they choke the lane to the point of farming suffocation; possibly more annoying than that, if you get minion aggro and try to lose them in the jungle, they will follow you. Through. The. Jungle. It's incredibly bizarre (and admittedly hilarious) and endlessly irritating to catch the speed shrine with fully built boots and still get harried by a few minion wave works as they follow you all over creation. Needs priority review, if you ask me.

*Vilemaw. Either make him easier, or make his buff/gold bounty much, much more significant. I can count the number of times I have killed him on one hand; most often, if my team scores an ace (or a double kill and an out-of-lane push), we just go for a tower and push, push, push instead while maintaining altar/jungle control in mid. It just makes more sense. If you're already acing the other team, then the Vilemaw buff isn't going to do anything but make you do what you can already do with slightly better efficiency-- so you're just better off knocking down towers/inhibitors. Vilemaw definitely needs to be changed. Making him slightly stronger but yield a far, far better reward might be all he needs; then again, slightly nerfing his reward while making him much easier to kill could work, too, but then you just have an Ebonmaw 2.0 situation where the team with as strong jungle champ can just control him all game without having to leave lanes.

*Altar timers. I think the altars need to unlock later in the game. Right now, they create an awkward game pace where no one wants to start laning and farming because they want to invade and cap the opposing altar. Subsequently they create a game state where only teams comprised of good early game champs can succeed in the altar management game. In tandem with any changes made to the initial altar unlocking, I think it's worth it to increase the amount of time it takes for altars to unlock after being captured, but maybe that's just me. Again, I think a shorter timer just puts more emphasis on the altars and creates weird tension in game states/pacing; I want to fight over the altars, but I don't want to be waging war every 90 seconds over them.


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DragnDave

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Put a time on base and when you can leave it. I feel bad when I've bought my 2 items and rushed to their bush and no one on their team has even left their base yet. I'm fast and because of that, fast teams in that 1st 15 seconds have a hefty advantage on positioning


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Teeird

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Agreed, people need to un-butthurt themselves.


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StevieHawking

Junior Member

11-07-2012

I know I'm not necessarily qualified to be making these suggestions, but these are some of the problems I've noticed after playing 3s. I'm a gold ranked 3s player (StevieHawking), and have been playing this game for two years. Here goes.

-Bruisers are still the kings of this format. Why? Bruisers have often dominated 3s because they come with sustain or free stats. These stats are balanced for 5 opponents, making them incredibly hard to kill. Furthermore, 3s normally don't last long enough for other champs to get to their late game, when most bruisers start to fall off. What Riot did to try to fix this: -New items: A good idea. Make items that let non bruisers have a way to deal with people who have large health pools.
-Alters
Alters providing extra gold per minion kill accelerates item builds compared to level, which helps. However, as will be discussed later, snowball comp stops most champs from being able to have an effective farming period to take advantage of this. -why it's not working: Bruisers can build those items too, and in many cases, it's strictly better on a bruiser. Like Blade of the Ruined King. Unbelievably good item, especially against an opponent with a large health pool. However, with it having a smaller range than every ad cary's auto range, the active can only be used offensively with melee units. The fix: Tweak items to be different for ranged units or melee units. This has been done before (phage, ghost blade, ect.). With Blade of the Ruined Kings, for example, make it's range have a minimum of the current range OR your aa range, whichever is larger. This makes the item a much more useful kiting tool for ranged champs.

Bruisers also have a HUGE advantage over ranged units because there are no wards. This makes it impossible to gain vision around corners without walking around them, or having an item taking up a slot with very poor stats (grez'z or sweeper). I can understand that wards might become far too powerful a tool for map control, by making it impossible to press for objectives with very little money.

Solution: Wards won't work. With two wards on that map, you can completely zone out the potential for any aggressive play. However, having a consumable that has the same active as grez's lantern with the same area, range and effect as their pink and green ward counter parts would solve this. It would still take up a slot, but the investment would be far lower, and not be on a one minute cooldown.

Problem:
Snowball comp is easily the strongest comp. Because of the map's set up, the aggressor will have an advantage in early fights.

The main cause is the speed shrine. This allows level one comps to rush into enemy territory, receiving a buff, and secure a first blood against a jungler or any defending teammates. From there, if a jungler decides to invade, because of the lack of wards and shape of lanes, their teammates will reach them at the same time as the defending players. This causes an environment which again gives an advantage to the aggressors. Solution: Take out the speed shrine. It's a nifty addition, but it gives too much of an advantage to early came comps, and prevents people from running champs who scale a little later into the game even more.

Smite:
Not necessarily a problem, but because it is impossible to ward vilemaw, it is impossible to smite steal it. This makes junglers who can run an offensive summoner over smite have a big advantage because it is not a useful summoner outside of early game. If you want to bring junglers with smite into the meta, let there be a way to purchase vision on vilemaw. Maybe a vender who gives vision of the are for 2 minutes for 100 gold.

Problem(?)
The wall adds 5 seconds to respawn times, making it harder to defend Nexus than inhibs. Might not be an issue, but this prevents turn around, almost completely. This makes snowball comp even stronger.
Solution:
Make the wall at spawn into a barrier impassable to enemy minions, but that champs can go through.

TL;DR:
-Make the new items better for ranged units than melee units.
-Make a stackable consumable in place of wards that lasts for a brief period of time and costs a small amount of gold to let ranged champs use their range in fights.
-Take out the speed shrine.
-Let there be a way to get vision on Vilemaw for smite steals.
-Make the wall at spawn an anti-minion barrier, not anti champ.

OH, and make there be a draft pick. The format NEEDS bans, and practicing without them is next to impossible.


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Omesh

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Bumping thread. These are the discussion we should be having.