[Featured Discussion] Flat health heal on hit item. why not?

First Riot Post
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Helioptile

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
In order to specialize for movement speed, you have to build into a very specific item - which naturally creates this weird power gap where a class that is perfectly catered by item Y gets MS while every other class pays a gold tax of unwanted stats to get the same mobility.
Want to talk to me about paying a "gold tax" for items with stats that are of no use to you? Let me introduce you to Mordekaiser.


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Kohou

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Quite honestly, I have no idea. There's a lot of moving parts here on changes.

Force of Nature served three purposes, one of which we couldn't make good.

1. High end MR item on one item.

We're not sure that a single rushed item should counter mages so heavily. So buying FoN for raw magic resistance was always going to be somewhat of a trap because we could never make it *good* to have this much MR on a single item without it simply being cost-inefficient so it could be slot-efficient.

There are ways to make an item cost-inefficient for selfish MR while still making it cost-efficient as a whole for MR though...

2. Regeneration/Siege

This we liked, but the fact that it was tied to a movement speed item and a magic resist item was a little weird. It didn't quite seem to click, so tanks that had to itemize regeneration kind of picked up a bunch of stats randomly.

Also, the tri-fecta of Warmogs / Spirit Visage / FoN was actually incredibly hard to get a good sense of balance. Mostly because it turns "on" super-late but mostly because they build on each other a little too much. While we like the build of 'I am unstoppable brick wall of regeneration' - we think that right now it's both really hard to get *and* overpowered when finished and we'd really like to see it be a more viable build that's more in line when it does happen so people feel like they aren't taking long-gambits but more of a choice on how to itemize.

3. Movement Speed

The whole paradigm of X class gets a MS item Y is actually starting to show where the faults are. In order to specialize for movement speed, you have to build into a very specific item - which naturally creates this weird power gap where a class that is perfectly catered by item Y gets MS while every other class pays a gold tax of unwanted stats to get the same mobility. This naturally leads to people wanting more MS/X items for a specific class - which seems to suggest that maybe what people actually want is more ubiquitous movement options that don't consume slots rather than a continuous stream of one-off items with MS% randomly on it.

For example, Lich Bane is the AP item with movement speed on it. That kind of screws every AP caster who doesn't want Lich Bane or can't use it well. This leads to this weird case where randomly, some class of characters get faster just because they can use Lich Bane well. While it's nice to have a few items like this - it's probably a sign as a whole that people want to be able to somehow spend more gold to get mobility rather than they want catered items that have MS on the item.
This is fine and all, but what does my sweet baby Singed build now?


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Asylum Lux

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Didn't we have enough problems with Irelia's flat heal on hit already?


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VV0VV

Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdStorm View Post
I was thinking a flat health on hit item belongs in the game.

Similar to the way malady does magic damage on hit, an item that heals for a flat amount instead of percentage based like life steal does.

I think it would add build diversity to the game for characters that need some sustain but build attack speed instead of damage.

As long as its balanced correctly vs life steal I cant see why not.
What about some kind of wand , It could do true damage equal to an enemys max hp per 5 attacks and or ability's , and have a unique active that heals the user from stored up power , decided upon a minute rate of ability power ratio.


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3rdStorm

Senior Member

11-06-2012

wow I feel lucky to have a hit thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
For example, Lich Bane is the AP item with movement speed on it. That kind of screws every AP caster who doesn't want Lich Bane or can't use it well. This leads to this weird case where randomly, some class of characters get faster just because they can use Lich Bane well. While it's nice to have a few items like this - it's probably a sign as a whole that people want to be able to somehow spend more gold to get mobility rather than they want catered items that have MS on the item.
This post here really gave insight into the level of care and thought you put into the game. Definitely shows why LOL is one of the best game ever made.

PS. to everyone sad FON is going. he implied there is going to be a replacement item. so don't get to sad. im sure you have MR options in season 3.


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BelligerentGnu

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Will the S3 item changes address the problems of

a) boots + 3 pot starts on everyone
b)Tier 2 boots having inferior gold value compared to other items, and
c) the non-merc tread tenacity items being so underwhelming?


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CapnChoGath

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
1. High end MR item on one item.
Will there be something to replace this item in a similar way? I enjoyed building this item on Cho'Gath due to the synergy with Chogath's natural high HP.


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Skernan

Senior Member

11-06-2012

With FoN gone, Mundo might actually be able to be caught and killed.


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Zelossage

Senior Member

11-06-2012

could be a way to remake doran's blade


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-06-2012
7 of 8 Riot Posts

Quote:
Will there be something to replace this item in a similar way? I enjoyed building this item on Cho'Gath due to the synergy with Chogath's natural high HP.
Of course. We know MR itemization is kind of painful right now because you have to build a bunch of null-magic mantle items in order to get MR.

However, simultaneously, we do recognize that a single large MR item hurts AP Casters far more than any other class, simply because of the sheer efficiency of linear resistances versus linear damage scaling on AP.

Thus, the problem is two-fold: Make enough MR items such that every class feels good about needing to buy some off-items for MR.

Two: Make sure that the MR is wide-spread enough such that one rushed item doesn't hard-counter mages.

There's a bunch of sub-goals involved in figuring out which core items can go on what characters in order to fill their MR needs and retuning some of our current MR itemization to simultaneously be less abusive when stacking pure resists but actually a decent MR choice. (BV, for example, suffers from the spell shield cooldown being super long.)