[Official Petition] Let new TT be a new map by itself.

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Volibar

Senior Product Manager

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11-05-2012
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Hi all, just wanted to drop by and say a few things. To start off, we certainly have been reading this thread and watching it over the past few weeks. I haven't been posting here because I wanted to see the overall sentiment from around the community about the new Twisted Treeline after people have had a chance to play it and experience it for themselves in a meaningful way.

I've also addressed some of TT topics on our Reddit AMA we did a few days ago, but I'm happy to discuss here as well

When we started looking at Twisted Treeline really intensely earlier this year (around the start of 2011), there were many issues that the community had identified. Among the worst were turtling, the meta being pretty stale, and there were a pretty big number of exploits that had way too much of an effect on the game. (You probably already know this, though.)

So, when we sat down to try and solve the problems, the solution space we started in was small - can we make a few simple changes here or there? What if we make a few item changes, etc.? Those helped, but ultimately we started expanding what we tried, but at the same time we were seeing better resolution to those problems. We adjusted the layout, sometimes making small changes, sometimes trying things we thankfully didn't ship (and we tried a TON). In the end, the map we created and all of the changes that have come with it was our answer to the problems that have plagued the map for a very long time. Our goal has and will always be to allow the fast pace, high action, small team feel that TT should represent to flourish.

As for the fate of old TT, right now we have no plans to add it back into custom games. we wanted to make sure that we don't split the focus of our players for each game type. For the same reason we probably won't ever create a 5v5 map that's really similar to Summoner's Rift, we didn't want to split the TT community between two maps. There's really no winner in that scenario, as there are two maps to support, two metas to maintain, and overall a really small delta between the two. We'd rather have you and our teams focused on one, working together to make it great as opposed to two, having neither of them living up to their full potential. If competitive TT is also going to take off, having two maps, even in custom games, is detrimental.

Let's be clear though, this is still Twisted Treeline. It is a bit different and sometimes change can be a little disruptive, but when we took a look at what we had on our hands after thousands of playtests, we wanted to release the new TT to you and get feedback as part of our Beta process. That's still ongoing, and we're going to continue to listen to your feedback and make changes going forward, ensuring that TT has the support it deserves.


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Byrnes

Senior Member

11-05-2012

And so we couldnt wait to fully replace the old map until the season was over? They couldn't have coexisted until our rush to get the best scores we could on ranked play was done?


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fatlifeforlife

Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volibar View Post
Hi all, just wanted to drop by and say a few things. To start off, we certainly have been reading this thread and watching it over the past few weeks. I haven't been posting here because I wanted to see the overall sentiment from around the community about the new Twisted Treeline after people have had a chance to play it and experience it for themselves in a meaningful way.

I've also addressed some of TT topics on our Reddit AMA we did a few days ago, but I'm happy to discuss here as well

When we started looking at Twisted Treeline really intensely earlier this year (around the start of 2011), there were many issues that the community had identified. Among the worst were turtling, the meta being pretty stale, and there were a pretty big number of exploits that had way too much of an effect on the game. (You probably already know this, though.)

So, when we sat down to try and solve the problems, the solution space we started in was small - can we make a few simple changes here or there? What if we make a few item changes, etc.? Those helped, but ultimately we started expanding what we tried, but at the same time we were seeing better resolution to those problems. We adjusted the layout, sometimes making small changes, sometimes trying things we thankfully didn't ship (and we tried a TON). In the end, the map we created and all of the changes that have come with it was our answer to the problems that have plagued the map for a very long time. Our goal has and will always be to allow the fast pace, high action, small team feel that TT should represent to flourish.

As for the fate of old TT, right now we have no plans to add it back into custom games. we wanted to make sure that we don't split the focus of our players for each game type. For the same reason we probably won't ever create a 5v5 map that's really similar to Summoner's Rift, we didn't want to split the TT community between two maps. There's really no winner in that scenario, as there are two maps to support, two metas to maintain, and overall a really small delta between the two. We'd rather have you and our teams focused on one, working together to make it great as opposed to two, having neither of them living up to their full potential. If competitive TT is also going to take off, having two maps, even in custom games, is detrimental.

Let's be clear though, this is still Twisted Treeline. It is a bit different and sometimes change can be a little disruptive, but when we took a look at what we had on our hands after thousands of playtests, we wanted to release the new TT to you and get feedback as part of our Beta process. That's still ongoing, and we're going to continue to listen to your feedback and make changes going forward, ensuring that TT has the support it deserves.
i have to say that due to some of these changes i have been playing 5s only. i cant wait to see what changes are made


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SasoriStar

Junior Member

11-05-2012

Signed


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Hraagh

Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volibar View Post
Let's be clear though, this is still Twisted Treeline.
No, it isn't. This isn't twisted, nor is it a treeline.

I don't want the fast-paced high-action MUST FIGHT EVERY TIME WE SPAWN feeling. That's what Dominion is for. That's what Proving Grounds is for. That's what FPS games are for. They're quite good at it.
Now our only option for a game that doesn't involve a fight within 10 seconds of spawning is Summoner's Rift. Why don't you enable both maps for a while, and let PLAYERS choose which one is more popular? If I'm wrong, so be it, but why don't you let the players decide instead of forcing this down our throats?


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Best Fizz EU

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Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volibar View Post
As for the fate of old TT, right now we have no plans to add it back into custom games. we wanted to make sure that we don't split the focus of our players for each game type. For the same reason we probably won't ever create a 5v5 map that's really similar to Summoner's Rift, we didn't want to split the TT community between two maps. There's really no winner in that scenario, as there are two maps to support, two metas to maintain, and overall a really small delta between the two. We'd rather have you and our teams focused on one, working together to make it great as opposed to two, having neither of them living up to their full potential. If competitive TT is also going to take off, having two maps, even in custom games, is detrimental.
Please add it back into custom games as an officially unsupported map. Me and my friend loved to do some fun 1v1s there, but it just isn't the same with the new map. The new TT with it's new jungle and objectives changed how the game works so much, so I don't think I can agree with the statement "It's still Twisted Treeline." Just leave the old TT as an option to play, but declare it to be officially unsupported so it will be a map just for fun.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

11-05-2012

Quote:
Let's be clear though, this is still Twisted Treeline.
Because it's 3v3 lane push map?

No offense, but by that logic Proving Grounds is Summoner's Rift.

The new TT only has two things in common with old TT: 2 lanes, 3 players. That's literally it. Nearly every other facet of the map was drastically changed. Don't get me wrong, I like both maps. I prefer the new one, slightly. But at the same time, this "Noveltyphobia" that Riot has going on in regards to map making is starting to get silly.


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GhoSTmaNFu

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Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hraagh View Post
No, it isn't. This isn't twisted, nor is it a treeline.

I don't want the fast-paced high-action MUST FIGHT EVERY TIME WE SPAWN feeling. That's what Dominion is for. That's what Proving Grounds is for. That's what FPS games are for. They're quite good at it.
Now our only option for a game that doesn't involve a fight within 10 seconds of spawning is Summoner's Rift. Why don't you enable both maps for a while, and let PLAYERS choose which one is more popular? If I'm wrong, so be it, but why don't you let the players decide instead of forcing this down our throats?

I dont know. I find a game within 15 seconds with new map...4 minutes with old...troll


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ShooterDudeLoL

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Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volibar View Post

Let's be clear though, this is still Twisted Treeline.
Let's be clear though, no it isn't.


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Satelite

Junior Member

11-05-2012

"As for the fate of old TT, right now we have no plans to add it back into custom games."

Since you are not going to bring back the old TT here sre some things that can be fixed on the new one. Right now it is the least fun map because of these flaws.

Issues:

The new boss not targeting champs that initiate is a problem. A team should be able to gank if an opponent is careless. Make the boss target the team that started to kill it first. Just like ebonmaw.

Teams are rewarded more for turtling now. Most teams simply sit by their own altar, and under their towers. At about 30 min they ace someone and it's GG. This can be fixed by making death timers scale with actual deaths and not how long the game has been running.

Shutdown gold should be scaled back a bit. I can't tell you how many times I've been up by over 10 kills. The enemy will get a good exchange and even though they are still 7 kills behind they now have as much or more money. Either scale it back, or don't downgrade a winning teams $$ for kills.

Pros

Altars are great and create a new objective and place to initate team fights away from towers.

No wards is fantastic, aside from teemo being able to dominate the map. Ward cost is an effective counter though.

The new items are fantastic love them all.