Mooglet's on Dominion

First Riot Post
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urmamasllama

Senior Member

11-05-2012

yeah we could use something better than tome its pretty bad that's one of the big things holding mages back we have an AP big cdr item but no one wants to get it because its really just bad


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-05-2012

There are more such items.

Most are situational, but still:
Athene's gives 15%
Nashor's gives 25% (!)
BFT will give 15%

And we have Morello's/Frozen Heart.

Honestly, there are plenty of cheap items that provide 10-15% CDR, and if you need a bit more CDR just pick them up - Kindlegem, Stinger, Sweeper, Glacial Shroud, Fiendish Codex.

I mean, if you don't fill all your slots, you can just get a nice Kindlegem, and it has enough things for you to upgrade it into if the need arises. Especially with the upcoming Sweeper AP buff.


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Stexe

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Adjudicator

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
The new Ichor helps majorly with that too.

Also, we're on the Dominion part of the divide, Stexe
Also, the BFT on the PBE right now has CDR.
Well, the same applies for Dominion -- lack of blue buff is huge.


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urmamasllama

Senior Member

11-05-2012

i'll give you athenes is nice and so is frozen heart but FH is usually more needed and slows down building damage (a problem i really want to see adressed)

remember that all of those except bft and sweeper have something to do with mana making it suboptimal on a lot of champs

nashor's is a highly champ specific item and even the champs its good on don't always take it


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-05-2012

Building defense is building damage, just not DPS.

CDR and mana are naturally building damage.
Kindlegem doesn't have mana. Kindlegem on its own is very cost efficient for CDR.
Blackfire Torch has nothing to do with mana as well. And will give CDR.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaIfhearted View Post
As to your other question about what APs can buy and what ADs can buy, I'm only going to bring up offensive items, because everyone gets FH.
*Actually, I see APs get a greater variety of defensive items than ADs, because it's been awhile since I've seen an AD get thornmail, but a few of my APs get it as their core armor item.

AP: sweeper, rylais, void staff, deathcap (it sees use on a few champs like Annie and AP burst assassins in general), abyssal, hourglass (a niche item, but sees occasional play, and most Zyras I see get it), RoA, Lichbane (Fizz/Diana/Elise) guise, superchalice, nashors (Teemo/Kayle/Diana) and occasionally WoTA (sustainers like Swain/Nunu)

That's 12 items.

AD: Triforce, IE, PD, Maw, Atmas, Ex Calling, Sanguine, LW, Brut/Youmus, Frozen Mallet, and Manamune (Blitz/Malz)

That's 11 items.

Now, I might have missed some things, but I think I covered all the items that would be considered "viable" on mages and ADs in Dom, and although some of them are a tad niche, they're still perfectly fine on the champs who can use them.

Don't give me that "stale itemization" stuff, cause I ain't buyin it.
I updated the previous post with what you classify as a "Mage".

In regards to Itemization, it is stale because there is very little variety in what you should build on champ, or what you CAN build if you want to remain viable on BOTH SIDES. For example, if you can't build Sweeper on your mage, you generally aren't viable. If you can't build relatively tanky while still dishing out decent DPS, then you aren't viable. Everything has been funneled into Mpen+Tank, Triforce tank or just pure tank, very little stray from this. More itemization will give us greater variance in not only champs played, but builds for particular champs in particular situations.


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Orphane

Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Nome, I asked before, but will ask again. How do BFT charges gonna work?

Let's say I have a 4 second DoT, I hit you, I expend 3 charges and you have 3 on you. A second passes, you have 2 charges, my DoT ticks once more, you're back at 3 charges.
Have I expended 4 charges (3+1), or 6 (3*2)?

Furthermore, Nome, could you please unpack #1?
"1. Inch the general Dominion populace towards better purchasing habits."
What exactly do you mean by that? More penetration, CDR, mid-game items?
I'm guessing Nome means the uneducated majority of people who do stuff like rush Dcap with no CDR.


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Malah

Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Consider this a test. Wait until S3 hits to form finalized opinions. Have fun with imba items until then!
Good afternoon.

I will happily take Wooglet's. Please take the rest of your imba bull**** back to TT where it can rot and die. Thanks!


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Snoop Nome

Game Designer

11-05-2012
7 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Nome, I asked before, but will ask again. How do BFT charges gonna work?

Let's say I have a 4 second DoT, I hit you, I expend 3 charges and you have 3 on you. A second passes, you have 2 charges, my DoT ticks once more, you're back at 3 charges.
Have I expended 4 charges (3+1), or 6 (3*2)?

Furthermore, Nome, could you please unpack #1?
"1. Inch the general Dominion populace towards better purchasing habits."
What exactly do you mean by that? More penetration, CDR, mid-game items?
I posted a breakdown of the charge mechanic... somewhere. There's no tracking of charges on the target. Let's say there's 25 charges on BFT. Caster uses 4 second DoT on target.
Second 1: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 2: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 3: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 4: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 5: 1 charge expended. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 6: 1 charge expended. BFT burns for 1 second.

A 4 second DoT will burn 6 charges (because the final second of damage application will renew the 3 second BFT for the last time).


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stormfallen

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Senior Member

11-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I posted a breakdown of the charge mechanic... somewhere. There's no tracking of charges on the target. Let's say there's 25 charges on BFT. Caster uses 4 second DoT on target.
Second 1: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 2: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 3: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 4: 1 charge expended, DoT burns for 1 second. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 5: 1 charge expended. BFT burns for 1 second.
Second 6: 1 charge expended. BFT burns for 1 second.

A 4 second DoT will burn 6 charges (because the final second of damage application will renew the 3 second BFT for the last time).
With the current 5% per 3 seconds/charges, that's 10% max health over that single DOT. I think Brand might like this item. (Hello, 18% max health on every Q)