Lord Van Damm's Pillager

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UtvaraHellkite

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The confusion about AD caster vs. Bruiser is the same as the distinction between Veigar and Ryze.

Veigar is a burst caster, just like Pantheon and Talon. Ryze is more like Darius. Veigar doesn't want Spell Vamp. He wants to optimize his +damage as much as possible. The same is really true for Talon/Pantheon.

CDR and HP is about as useful for Pantheon/Talon as it is for Ashe. Sure, I kind of care that I get more Volleys, but what I really want is more Infinity Edge crits. Yeah, I kinda care that I have some more health, but what I really want is more damage.

Now, you can play Talon or Pantheon more bruiser-ish. A lot of Pantheons I see actually do this. They grab Brutalizer, take Bloodthirster, and then go Frozen Mallet and GA and stuff. That's fine, and if you go that route, then LVD is good for you.
So still no items for Panth/Talon/Kha ? Will wou have something for us (for SR at least) ?


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Thinkaman

Senior Member

10-25-2012

This seems to be a patch notes typo. The PBE version still has, as of the moment of this post, +25 flat armor pen.

Note that the PBE *does* currently include other item changes listed in the patch notes, such as Witchcap having +100 AP instead of the old +80.


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Malefic Vision

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
LVD's pillager is not an AD caster item. This isn't good for Pantheon or Talon. Pantheon and Talon want more damage and more armor penetration.

HP/CDR/SV are bruiser stats. It's good for Darius and Riven.
I understand why this new item doesn't have armor pen, but I don't understand why you actually LOSE something by upgrading it. There will be situations where your damage with the recipe items will actually be more than when you have the full thing, and that doesn't make any sense to me.

The only other thing llike this I can think of is the upgrading of Madreds Bloodrazors, where you lose the bonus magic damage to minions proc, but as Kitae's Bloodrazors show us that part of the item is really just there to increase the cost, not to ad any sort of viable AD or armor. At best, it means you an get the claws early for farming and make them lategame Bloodrazor, but you can't say the same about brutaliser to the LVDP, because armor pen is needed more and more as time goes by, not less and less (such as the ability to lasthit, burst boss mobs and jungle faster with madreds claws).

If anything, some of the LVDP's damage could be lowered and replaced with the armor pen from the brutaliser. That way, assuming the enemy has the same armor as before, you'll be doing the same damage that you would be doing with the current LVDP, but if the situation arises that you need the armor pen more or less there there will actually be a factor for that.


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sirplayalot11

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

All I know is....Olaf's going to have a field day with this item.


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Thinkaman

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UtvaraHellkite View Post
No typo, it does indeed give 25 Arpen (builds from Brutalizer so it makes sense)
Erm, that's what I meant. The patch notes are incorrect, the Armor Pen still exists.


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UtvaraHellkite

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkaman View Post
Erm, that's what I meant. The patch notes are incorrect, the Armor Pen still exists.
Yeah, my bad. Deleted the post


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Reiver

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The confusion about AD caster vs. Bruiser is the same as the distinction between Veigar and Ryze.

Veigar is a burst caster, just like Pantheon and Talon. Ryze is more like Darius. Veigar doesn't want Spell Vamp. He wants to optimize his +damage as much as possible. The same is really true for Talon/Pantheon.

CDR and HP is about as useful for Pantheon/Talon as it is for Ashe. Sure, I kind of care that I get more Volleys, but what I really want is more Infinity Edge crits. Yeah, I kinda care that I have some more health, but what I really want is more damage.

Now, you can play Talon or Pantheon more bruiser-ish. A lot of Pantheons I see actually do this. They grab Brutalizer, take Bloodthirster, and then go Frozen Mallet and GA and stuff. That's fine, and if you go that route, then LVD is good for you.
Phreak, you seem to be confusing Old Pantheon with Current Pantheon.

Old Pantheon had long cooldowns with extremely high burst.

Current Pantheon has extremely short cooldowns and far less burst. This means building tanky + CDR allows you to just sit in the fight and spam SS/HSS, whereas with old Pantheon you'd drop your combo, and then HSS would be sitting there with a HUGE cooldown (I think it was like 18 base at max rank?) instead of the 6 it has currently (3.6 with CDR)

They killed pantheon's burst =(


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SaloMeirul

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Can we have an actual designer comment on this? TBH Phreak isn't saying anything useful.


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Malefic Vision

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
The confusion about AD caster vs. Bruiser is the same as the distinction between Veigar and Ryze.

Veigar is a burst caster, just like Pantheon and Talon. Ryze is more like Darius. Veigar doesn't want Spell Vamp. He wants to optimize his +damage as much as possible. The same is really true for Talon/Pantheon.

CDR and HP is about as useful for Pantheon/Talon as it is for Ashe. Sure, I kind of care that I get more Volleys, but what I really want is more Infinity Edge crits. Yeah, I kinda care that I have some more health, but what I really want is more damage.

Now, you can play Talon or Pantheon more bruiser-ish. A lot of Pantheons I see actually do this. They grab Brutalizer, take Bloodthirster, and then go Frozen Mallet and GA and stuff. That's fine, and if you go that route, then LVD is good for you.
This analogy is bad. Assassins and ADCs perfom 2 very, very different roles. And, with the current trend towards releasing more and more bruisers and less less and less adc/support, assassins are having alot more truble dealing with the new meta than any adcs are, and I'm sure you're not so ignorant to know that.


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Sagè

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Darius' Item of choice...
Ult=HP BACK TO FULL :L lol