Why You Lost (A Guide to Winning)

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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Ok, so not to play the blame game, but if I am an ADC and I am literally buying all of the wards for my lane because my "support" is not warding at all, and is instead hugging the turret a full minion wave behind me, making no attempt to deter my opponents from plowing me right out of lane while I am trying to defensively CS, and won't even stand close enough to get experience for themselves, it is not unreasonable for me to be aggravated by this scenario, is it?
Though I should note that the match in question helped teach me the importance of buying wards as an ADC, as I had previously thought, like many others, that the goal was to build straight into late game and leave warding to my support.


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Lethadind

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Ok, so not to play the blame game, but if I am an ADC and I am literally buying all of the wards for my lane because my "support" is not warding at all, and is instead hugging the turret a full minion wave behind me, making no attempt to deter my opponents from plowing me right out of lane while I am trying to defensively CS, and won't even stand close enough to get experience for themselves, it is not unreasonable for me to be aggravated by this scenario, is it?
Though I should note that the match in question helped teach me the importance of buying wards as an ADC, as I had previously thought, like many others, that the goal was to build straight into late game and leave warding to my support.
Dude. I'm so proud of you!

Everyone, I need your attention. Everyone!

THIS is exactly the mindset switch you need. Pay attention to the journey TheLastBaron88 goes through as he's typing this. Starts to blame, points out flaws, admits that he coudln't do some things, and then noted what he learned, and how to do it better.

Here's my two cents: Every once in awhile you're going to get a derp. He's going to derp around doing derpy things and there's not anything you can do about it. He is, after all, a derp. However, this is your prime learning opportunity, because this is what challenges you to become better. I know, I know, "It's really easy to say that, but try living it." I have. It's frustrating, it sucks, it's horrible, and it makes you want to kick a small child in the face (o.0). However, work on controlling that anger and instead realize it's a learning opportunity.

Also, there are still things that you can "do" to not totally get destroyed. I'm not sure who you were laning against/with but it seems like it was an aggressive support and adc, like a leona/ezreal combo or something. It sucks, especially if your support is passive like soraka, or if they're just playing an aggressive champion but not being aggressive with him because they fear that initial burst as they engage (the first few split seconds of an engagement is when most of the dps is dropped usually, so dropping half-health instantly doesn't mean you'll drop completely in the same time frame, a lot of people don't understand this and the only way to get over it is to play a few normals and play extremely aggressive - this way you find out your champ's limitations and sustain during an engagement). Anyway, if you have a way to passively farm like Ezreal's Q or Graves' Buckshot (I think it's Q...not sure as I don't play him often), you're gonna have to do that, and just wait for that jungler gank.

The bright side is their jungler likely won't make a visit until after level 6.

Honestly, the best thing that you can learn in a situation like this is how to dodge harass more effectively. What they're going to do is poke you down until they can tower dive you, you have to prolong this as long as possible. Sometimes it just sucks and they have, like, Alistar and there's basically nothing you can do. What you might try is letting them take the tower early (in lower Elo they'll do it every time) and then try to freeze the lane at your inner tower (there's a link in my first post on how to do this, it's a quote from FaerellG). This way you control the wave and deny them farm. Farm the hell out of the jungle as best as you can, and simply try not to die.

I just had a game where they invaded our jungle and their graves got two insta-kills while I was left, as Ezreal, with only one assist. Blitzcrank was their support. I had Maokai (who does okay, but because of troll picks had to go support instead of jungle) as my support. It was a rough lane, but once the jungler came in once things became more balanced, especially because I got two kills by baiting the tower dive (I died once as well, but still), the lane went into my favor. At one point I was 2/3/0, and Graves was 4/1/1 with higher cs as well. After the jungler came (with our mid) we ended up having a small skirmish and I got two of the kills - as their jungler/mid joined as well. From there I just snowballed out of control. I ended the game with something like 25/8/18, 300 cs. Graves ended up 8/9/10 or something. Don't get impatient, wait for that perfect opportunity, and just dodge as much harass as possible.

It wasn't necessarily your fault that you got destroyed, but you still could have done more to delay or stop it all together. I'm positive that some of the 18-2200 Elo players that I get the opportunity of playing with from time to time would have done just fine in that situation, so all I can say is roll up dem sleeves and get to work, you got some lifting to do, and your back's gonna hurt brah!


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethadind View Post
Dude. I'm so proud of you!

Everyone, I need your attention. Everyone!

THIS is exactly the mindset switch you need. Pay attention to the journey TheLastBaron88 goes through as he's typing this. Starts to blame, points out flaws, admits that he coudln't do some things, and then noted what he learned, and how to do it better.

Here's my two cents: Every once in awhile you're going to get a derp. He's going to derp around doing derpy things and there's not anything you can do about it. He is, after all, a derp. However, this is your prime learning opportunity, because this is what challenges you to become better. I know, I know, "It's really easy to say that, but try living it." I have. It's frustrating, it sucks, it's horrible, and it makes you want to kick a small child in the face (o.0). However, work on controlling that anger and instead realize it's a learning opportunity.

Also, there are still things that you can "do" to not totally get destroyed. I'm not sure who you were laning against/with but it seems like it was an aggressive support and adc, like a leona/ezreal combo or something. It sucks, especially if your support is passive like soraka, or if they're just playing an aggressive champion but not being aggressive with him because they fear that initial burst as they engage (the first few split seconds of an engagement is when most of the dps is dropped usually, so dropping half-health instantly doesn't mean you'll drop completely in the same time frame, a lot of people don't understand this and the only way to get over it is to play a few normals and play extremely aggressive - this way you find out your champ's limitations and sustain during an engagement). Anyway, if you have a way to passively farm like Ezreal's Q or Graves' Buckshot (I think it's Q...not sure as I don't play him often), you're gonna have to do that, and just wait for that jungler gank.

The bright side is their jungler likely won't make a visit until after level 6.

Honestly, the best thing that you can learn in a situation like this is how to dodge harass more effectively. What they're going to do is poke you down until they can tower dive you, you have to prolong this as long as possible. Sometimes it just sucks and they have, like, Alistar and there's basically nothing you can do. What you might try is letting them take the tower early (in lower Elo they'll do it every time) and then try to freeze the lane at your inner tower (there's a link in my first post on how to do this, it's a quote from FaerellG). This way you control the wave and deny them farm. Farm the hell out of the jungle as best as you can, and simply try not to die.

I just had a game where they invaded our jungle and their graves got two insta-kills while I was left, as Ezreal, with only one assist. Blitzcrank was their support. I had Maokai (who does okay, but because of troll picks had to go support instead of jungle) as my support. It was a rough lane, but once the jungler came in once things became more balanced, especially because I got two kills by baiting the tower dive (I died once as well, but still), the lane went into my favor. At one point I was 2/3/0, and Graves was 4/1/1 with higher cs as well. After the jungler came (with our mid) we ended up having a small skirmish and I got two of the kills - as their jungler/mid joined as well. From there I just snowballed out of control. I ended the game with something like 25/8/18, 300 cs. Graves ended up 8/9/10 or something. Don't get impatient, wait for that perfect opportunity, and just dodge as much harass as possible.

It wasn't necessarily your fault that you got destroyed, but you still could have done more to delay or stop it all together. I'm positive that some of the 18-2200 Elo players that I get the opportunity of playing with from time to time would have done just fine in that situation, so all I can say is roll up dem sleeves and get to work, you got some lifting to do, and your back's gonna hurt brah!
I was Kog Maw laning with an Amumu against a Teemo and a Garen, of all things. Amumu actually started off with some aggression, trying to use his Q to engage enemies on their side of the lane at level 1/2, but before I could even get in position to put damage down. Which both of those champs have great escape abilities. Our jungler was a Shaco, who attempted a level 2 gank, and you know how random jungle shacos generally are. Needless to say, that failed, but worse, the guy sat in our lane taking farm and pushing the creep wave for a good minute or two, lol. I think I had to politely ask him to leave. Of course, I don't believe he ever came back a second time either, as he was likely too far behind from the first failed gank. The wards I bought were very handy, and I did my best to maximize their usefulness and waste the enemy team's time by using my Ult to get "sight" on areas that were already warded as they approached, letting them know I am aware of them, but potentially fooling them into thinking they were unlucky and that my bushes were in fact not warded. Must have worked because they just kept trying to flank me, only to begin the march of shame back to their side of the creep wave. Had to use my ult to force Garen out of his predictable hiding spots in order to ward those safely as well. Really, my lane ended when all 5 enemies started ganking my lane repeatedly, with no MIA calls or anyone coming to assist. But it happens I guess. Really, I am pretty bad at playing AD Carries, but I am trying my very best to improve at it. Any advice?


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Kystys

Junior Member

10-18-2012

I had a match, played jungle Kha'zix with a seemingly okay team starting. I noticed they had Shyv jungling but we did not invade, and in retrospect we should have to take their red or their blue. While jungling Shyv counter jungled and killed me by our golems on top lane, and my top lane wukong didn't try to finish her off. Don't know whether or not the enemy Xin would've been able to kill him after the fact. During that point our mid Karthus got killed by Kat, he bailed on the match, and from then on we quickly got snowballed.

Other than what we could've done better at the beginning of the match I'm not sure what we could've done to keep from getting snowballed. Enemy team had my jungle completely warded.


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vieTz

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Hey i read till SUPPORT LIKE A F****** BOSS and im like. hell yea i agree haha.

People want to play top mid or ad carry bottom thinking if they do good they will win. But like your solo queueing in rank and you dont know any of them whether theyre good or not. So isnt it better in that situation to play a character that will help them be good if they're not good rather than playing a char that doesnt help any chars out? What im tryna say is your getting a support char kind of benefits the entire team if the support is good. And getting a carry doesnt benefit the entire team as much. If the support does well the carrys generally does well. Carry does well then they do well but that doesnt really affect the others cus they most of the time are in their lane farming. And by carrys i mean top mid and bottom damage. Support is the jungler and support that helps bot. The supporters are like the centerblock that lets the carrys actually carry right? Thats what i tihnk of it.

When i played before i just played majority mid and ad carrys over jungle and support. Thats my season 1 rank and i just hovered around 1500-1600 after getting there. I played like 400 games and stayed around there. But when i learned from a friend that plays mainly support, he got up to 1800 and he stays aruond there. I consider him equal to me when we play together too so its like. Idk how to explain this im saying this 6 hours before school starts and im sleepy and im ranting bout this but lets end it here since i cant explain it very good. support helps the other team members do well. yes!? people need to learn that support actually helps more then they think

and i just read a few people think the way i do. high five


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Togekiss24

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Really like this post. I feel like I play this game in the wrong moods so much that it leads to a downfall.

I have some questions, though. The primary reason I don't play support is not only because it's the "boring" role, but because I think I suck at it. I get wards, try to zone and poke the enemy, even try to destroy wards, but it always feels like I get behind somehow, even against the other support. Not to mention if my carry fails, then the support seems to suffer as well. I've experienced games where I can't even afford wards or oracles as a support because my lane gets steamrolled. How do I fix this?

Another thing, OP, you mention that there isn't much wrong in contributing to warding your bot lane, yet I've had players kind of scold me for doing such as an ADC, saying it's the support's job. Does it really matter if I get a single ward or not to help out? Most lower-ranked players (like myself, I"m at about 1200 ELO) treat it like it's a taboo.


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zliplus

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Senior Member

10-19-2012

Is it the support that's scolding you for buying your own wards, or other lanes?

If it's other lanes:
It's everyone's job to ward. This is not well understood at lower ELOs, which is why you'll find some people who like to tell you how to play say that. It's a good idea to buy extra wards at lower ELO, since supports often can't handle it alone.

If it's the support:
Some supports might feel that you buying wards is a dig at them suggesting that they're not warding enough/well or whatever. I myself have felt this way on some rare occasions - it depends more on if the ward coverage has been good or not. Still, this isn't likely to be a serious issue.


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Jowabunga

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Senior Member

10-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by zliplus View Post
It's everyone's job to ward. This is not well understood at lower ELOs, which is why you'll find some people who like to tell you how to play say that. It's a good idea to buy extra wards at lower ELO, since supports often can't handle it alone.
It's not well-understood, agreed, but it turns my vision red when I start ASKING other people to ward and they ignore it. I can't tell you the number of times I've been playing AP mid or ADC, warding as frequently as I'm able, yet been the ONLY player warding... even including the support. Not cool at all.

Been following this thread for a while and am really enjoying it for its constructive direction. I'm one of many players that has struggled with the mental aspects of this game, but I've gotten a lot better of my own volition. My biggest problem, by far, is getting on a losing streak, then getting bull-headed and deciding to keep playing just to wash the bad taste out of my mouth. The results haven't been pretty: my attitude starts taking a nosedive after 3 or 4 losses and i start getting generally snippy. The primary thing I've learned playing this game is that while you have control over how you react to situations, there are a lot of things that you really have little to no control over. Trying to actively remember this while trying to keep my own emotions in check has been my challenge.


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Lethadind

Senior Member

10-20-2012

Hey guys a lot of you have posted so I'm just going to generalize, as a lot of the responses will be the same anyway.

On the subject of crappy teams - understand that even people who are in 2000 Elo lose games, you're going to lose games, and sometimes it won't be your fault, however the mistake you will make more often than not is thinking there was nothing you could do when in fact someone in higher Elo could have actually carried that game. Most of the decisions they would have made would have happened in the first 10 minutes. So when a lane fed their opponent 7 kills, it's your fault. If a lane goes 0/2 in the first five minutes, chances are they need help, but lower Elo never think of this, they're only worried about their lane. I often fall in this category, actually. The first two aren't your fault, but after that you need to think of that lane as your responsibility as well as your own lane. That's what carrying is. Your "in retrospects" are what will allow you to continually get better, always learn from your past games.

On the subjects of wards - if people are raging at you not to ward, chances are they are handling it, and you shouldn't need to ward. I usually grab a ward anyway and just leave it in my inventory all game until I need the space or it comes in handy - sometimes you don't want to face check, and sometimes you need a ward now, in these times having a ward on hand is...well...handy.

Jowabunga - your exact mentality is why I posted what I did in my original post about "Elo Hell." It's because of this mentality that statistics actually can't hold as strongly as people think it does. I've been all the way down to 500 Elo, and I can personally tell you that 500-900 Elo range there is absolutely no change in skill on average. Or if there is it's hardly noticeable. 900-1200 is likewise very similar.

Also my advice would be not to let it turn your vision red. Once you understand why something is happening, it shouldn't bother you that it's happening anymore - especially if it's out of your control. The best way to get people to follow is to actually lead, and one of the most important qualities for a leader is patience, another is diligence, and you need both to carry a team to victory in this game.

-~-~-

On another note entirely, someone has posted a troll topic "Why you lost (The true version)." Basically he's using and defacing the title of this thread to rage and throw blame on his teammates in his own thread. I would greatly appreciate it if any readers out here would downvote his thread to get it locked, I don't appreciate him defacing my guide, nor the disrespect it shows to the time I took to write it out.

Thanks guys.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

10-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethadind View Post
Hey guys a lot of you have posted so I'm just going to generalize, as a lot of the responses will be the same anyway.

On the subject of crappy teams - understand that even people who are in 2000 Elo lose games, you're going to lose games, and sometimes it won't be your fault, however the mistake you will make more often than not is thinking there was nothing you could do when in fact someone in higher Elo could have actually carried that game. Most of the decisions they would have made would have happened in the first 10 minutes. So when a lane fed their opponent 7 kills, it's your fault. If a lane goes 0/2 in the first five minutes, chances are they need help, but lower Elo never think of this, they're only worried about their lane. I often fall in this category, actually. The first two aren't your fault, but after that you need to think of that lane as your responsibility as well as your own lane. That's what carrying is. Your "in retrospects" are what will allow you to continually get better, always learn from your past games.

On the subjects of wards - if people are raging at you not to ward, chances are they are handling it, and you shouldn't need to ward. I usually grab a ward anyway and just leave it in my inventory all game until I need the space or it comes in handy - sometimes you don't want to face check, and sometimes you need a ward now, in these times having a ward on hand is...well...handy.

Jowabunga - your exact mentality is why I posted what I did in my original post about "Elo Hell." It's because of this mentality that statistics actually can't hold as strongly as people think it does. I've been all the way down to 500 Elo, and I can personally tell you that 500-900 Elo range there is absolutely no change in skill on average. Or if there is it's hardly noticeable. 900-1200 is likewise very similar.

Also my advice would be not to let it turn your vision red. Once you understand why something is happening, it shouldn't bother you that it's happening anymore - especially if it's out of your control. The best way to get people to follow is to actually lead, and one of the most important qualities for a leader is patience, another is diligence, and you need both to carry a team to victory in this game.

-~-~-

On another note entirely, someone has posted a troll topic "Why you lost (The true version)." Basically he's using and defacing the title of this thread to rage and throw blame on his teammates in his own thread. I would greatly appreciate it if any readers out here would downvote his thread to get it locked, I don't appreciate him defacing my guide, nor the disrespect it shows to the time I took to write it out.

Thanks guys.
I actually saw that troll post and figured it was some guy whose butt you may have hurt in an earlier post, lol. The funniest thing was that I took the time to read it, and realized I had been in MUCH worse games than the one he was describing. I would gladly trade him for my worst. I agree that it is a waste of space here on the Strategy Forum. Downvotes inbound.