Riot, all this mess about incoming Sona nerfs is a proof of reverse power creep.

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morello

Lead Designer

10-16-2012
2 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaara 0fThe Funk View Post
No, as long as its better to have one person with 15k gold and another with 7k gold as opposed to having two with 11k gold- a 0cs teammate will always be used.
This is true.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

2pudge1cup

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-16-2012

sona was massively buffed when her global cds were reduce. plus athenes is insanely good on her.

if something happens to her to give janna/soraka some play then im all for it, though it will probably just result in one of janna/soraka/taric/lulu getting the only play in her place since that's what seems to keep happening.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Blutarsky Blues

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Do all nerfs and buffs go through full pbe testing before going live?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Renaito Yuujou

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-16-2012

I remember at the beginning of the year, I thought Sona was pretty good. I could actually POKE in lane with her, make people afraid of her and successfully zone out with her. Then she got nerfed. I'm not sure how many times she got nerfed, because there was a period where I switched from Sona to Taric. But by the time I got back to Sona, I tried to zone with her and was completely unsuccessful. Not only did I deal NO damage, but EVERY AD carry could jump on top of me and 100-0 me with little effort.

Sona received some small buffs not long ago, and coupled with a game play change on my part, instead of zoning with Sona just being more of a heal bot, I was able to succeed with Sona again. But she was not was she used to be. Her poke is still not there, her zoning is just not an option. And now I hear that she's going to be nerfed MORE?

Just stop it, seriously. She's too weak to harass now as it is, do NOT nerf her, seriously. She could stand a bit more damage as it is, nerfing her would just make her completely useless.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MrHarz

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Sona is pushing out Lulu
Sona isn't pushing out Lulu. Both have near-equal poke power in lane, and Lulu has even more utility in teamfights.

It's everything else that pushes Lulu out. The Blitzcranks, the Leonas, the ADCs with early game poke equal or greater to the dedicated poke supports and gap closers, etc.

Edit - Oh, and Taric. The most popular solo queue support completely and utterly shuts down Lulu.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Panzerfaust

Emissary of the League

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJaxon View Post
It helps that Riot almost never releases support champs, so people are forced to shoehorn Leona and Zyra into support role.
The support role isn't the same as the 'support' lane position (the babysitter). Even if you had 30 supports to choose from, players would still choose to babysit with Leona/Blitz/Zyra in situations because it makes sense.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morello

Lead Designer

10-16-2012
3 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaito Yuujou View Post
I remember at the beginning of the year, I thought Sona was pretty good. I could actually POKE in lane with her, make people afraid of her and successfully zone out with her. Then she got nerfed. I'm not sure how many times she got nerfed, because there was a period where I switched from Sona to Taric. But by the time I got back to Sona, I tried to zone with her and was completely unsuccessful. Not only did I deal NO damage, but EVERY AD carry could jump on top of me and 100-0 me with little effort.

Sona received some small buffs not long ago, and coupled with a game play change on my part, instead of zoning with Sona just being more of a heal bot, I was able to succeed with Sona again. But she was not was she used to be. Her poke is still not there, her zoning is just not an option. And now I hear that she's going to be nerfed MORE?

Just stop it, seriously. She's too weak to harass now as it is, do NOT nerf her, seriously. She could stand a bit more damage as it is, nerfing her would just make her completely useless.
Comparing a champion that was widly overpowered (let's go look at those release numbers, eh?) to the current state isn't a valid data set. By this logic, Vlad is terrible and unusable, as is TF and Zyra :P

Sona's GREAT right now. She's very good, and very strong - superb poke, good utility, and tank-level AOE CC. Saying she's bad is just...wrong.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Genspirit

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is a red herring. The power level across the board, generally, is up - we constantly add total power to the game. There's zero evidence of a progression of reverse power creep - in fact, our game is power-creeping a little.

For supports, we're going to take it on the chin if we ever nerf any of them at this point, regardless of if it is or isn't correct - the negative feelings of the nerfs we've done have really left a sour taste in people's mouth (and I can understand that).

What this means, is it's going to be even harder to get usable feedback because it's going to be a lot of frustration and anger (Hostile Miku finally lost it with the idea of another Sona nerf!). It's very, very clear to me that this will anger people - I get that.

I also want to be clear, while I'm signing off on this stuff, this is the recommendation my experts are making - and their analysis checks out. I'll ask them to come give it in person on the forums if we do decide to hit Sona so there's more context. That won't solve the anger problem (you can't out-logic emotion), but maybe at least make it understandable.

It's tough, because in cases like this we have to make a choice between making players mad or doing what makes the game better and more balanced. Making players mad isn't something we like to do, but sometimes it is something we have to do.

What I will say is, if we do push supports out, we'll get them back in - just like we did with Sona. We'll just be faster next time Out goal is not to push them out, but it's also not OK to have only Sona/Janna/Soraka used (this was literally six weeks ago in NA finals). If Sona is pushing out Lulu, Janna, and Soraka, that's as much of a problem as if it Leona or Blitz were doing it.
but its ok to have only ez, graves, and corki used

makes sense


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Maximum Viktor

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genspirit View Post
but its ok to have only ez, graves, and corki used

makes sense
Ezreal is confirmed for nerfs. Corki might be nerfed. Don't know about Graves.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DreamsOfGrandeur

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genspirit View Post
but its ok to have only ez, graves, and corki used

makes sense
You haven't seen the recent Finals where Vayne wrecked face, eh?