@Classick Let's talk about Tristana...please?

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Lemano

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Hey Classick! I know you might be busy with the continuation of the World Finals and even with just balancing and design stuff in general however, I would like to talk to you about my favorite megling gunner Tristana.

Tristana as we know is one of the oldest AD carries of the league, and has been past up on quality of life changes as well as skill changes for a while now.

While many other carries have shined above her at every stage of the game, she reigns supreme in one area; late game. The only other hero that's actually really good late game, or ultra late game rather is Kog'Maw.

To start off this discussion, I'm going to link her base stats as well as her abilities and their damages and ratios:

================================================== ===============

Tristana, the Megling Gunner

Stats

Health: 415 (+82)

Health Regen: 5.1 (+0.65)

Mana: 193 (+32)

Mana Regen: 3.95 (+0.25)

Range: 550

Attack Damage: 46.5 (+3)

Attack Speed: 0.658 (+3.01%)

Armor: 15 (+3)

Magic Resistance: 30

Movement Speed: 300

================================================== ===============

Passive
Draw a Bead: Tristana increases her auto attack range by 9 every time she levels up (does not include level one). At level 18, the bonus is 153 (703 total range).

Q
Rapid Fire: ACTIVE: Increases Tristana's attack speed for 7 seconds.

Manacost: 80

CD: 20

Attack Speed Boost: 30% / 45% / 60% / 75% / 90%

******

W
Rocket Jump:
ACTIVE: Tristana fires at the ground to propel herself to a target location, dealing magic damage and slowing surrounding units by 60% for 2.5 seconds when she lands. On kills or assists, Rocket Jump's cooldown resets.

Manacost: 80

CD: 22/20/18/16/14

Range: 900

Magic Damage: 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 80% AP)
******

E
Explosive Shot PASSIVE: Enemies explode when slain by Tristana's basic attacks, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies.

ACTIVE: Explosive Shot rends the target enemy, reducing healing and health regeneration by 50% and dealing magic damage over 5 seconds.

Manacost: 50/60/70/80/90

CD: 16

Range: 625

Magic Damage: EXPLOSION MAGIC DAMAGE: / 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+ 25% AP)

EXPLOSION DIAMETER: 150

SHOT MAGIC DAMAGE: 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 / 230 (+ 100% AP)
******

R
Buster Shot ACTIVE: Tristana fires a massive cannonball at an enemy unit, dealing magic damage and knocking them and surrounding units back.

Manacost: 140

CD: 60

Range: 700

Magic Damage: MAGIC DAMAGE: 300 / 400 / 500 (+ 150% AP)

KNOCKBACK DISTANCE: 600 / 800 / 1000

KNOCKBACK FORCE WIDTH: 200
******

So as we can see, her base stats aren't that bad. However, the biggest thing that's her problem are just the fact most of her spells scale off of ability power.

Her early game power is beyond comprehension, only rivaling Ezreal and even Draven that can most likely out class her in a straight fight.

Her laning phase; in my opinion, is out classed for the fact she has an extremely clunky auto attack, and her cast times are extremely long in cast time (besides her ult).

Her mid game is extremely hard to play around for it has that feel of "you're technically a good auto attacker, but not really" and still need more items than a early game/mid game carry hero; such as, Corki, Graves, Ezreal, Miss Fortune, Draven, Sivir, Kog and hell even Twitch.

Her late game is beyond phenomenal with extremely good positioning, vision and just having the items to dish out the dps from afar. It's only rivaled by Kog'Maw who has the innate %HP shred and longer range on his W.

TL;DR

Pros:

  • Good early game
  • Extremely good late game
  • Pretty long range late game capping at 713
  • Good burst early lvls, and scales to late game if you have the items to shred them or even burst them if you go ap

Cons
  • Extremely hard mid game
  • Pushes way too hard when trying to hold lane due to Explosive Shot
  • HEAVILY Item dependent
  • Extremely Clunky auto attack and cast time of spells
  • Very Low Uptime of Her ASPD Steroid

******

Proposed Changes/Buffs
  • Have EITHER a) A higher uptime on her ASPD Steroid from the lack luster 7 seconds to some where around 9-11 seconds to make her feel more of like a "hero" so to speak when right clicking, or b) lower the CD and Manacost of her Q and increase it's duration by a tiny bit so it's warranted to level up early in the laning phase.
  • All of her spells, SHOULD increase with the range increase of her passive. When late game comes around I feel like all of my abilities are useless in the mid to late game stages of the game due to me having to be pretty much in melee range to cast them on any of the enemy teams, and I end up getting rolled by the enemy team trying to harrass them down with spells.
  • Her Explosive Shot needs a lowered CD at later levels. The 16 second CD of it is just way too long for the duration that it gives, IMO.

Proposed Rework to her Explosive Shot: REWORK: Passive: Explosive shot is now a full fledged passive causing Tristana's auto attacks to do passive magic damage in a form of a DOT (like her Explosive shot now) stacking up to a cap of 4. Damage: 20/30/40/50/60 (+.06 bonus AD)(+0.25 AP). Grievous Wounds is reworked into the level up of the skill. So at Level 1/2/3/4/5 of the spell, the healing reduction increases by 10/20/30/40/50% on her auto attacks, and lasts the same time as her DOT.

Whenever Tristana kills a minion or a hero with the passive on them they explode in a radius doing explosive damage to anything around them. That AoE damage is the same as it is now.

This ability can now be toggled On/Off.

With this change, and the increase to her other abilities range with her passive range increase, along with her QoL changes I think she would be in a good spot after the fact. Again testing will prove if it is good enough or not. Anyway, hopefully Classick you'll be able to read this in your spare time to come up with a discussion of what you think needs changing with her or, if she needs no changes at all.

This thread is open for a thoughtful discussion and deep input from the community, so feel free to talk it up here guys and tell me what you like/dislike/or don't want to see on our beloved Gunner!

-Lemano

PS: First long post, so please be gentle :P

EDIT: Added AP ratio into her reworked explosive shot as well as the grievous wounds as well.

EDIT: More thoughts on Tristana from fellow summoners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oqwnM View Post
Her winrate's hanging around 43-45%, and she doesn't have any support synergy over 50% win rate right now in any bracket. (Meaning she loses more than she wins no matter what the support is)

http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...&range=monthly

http://www.lolking.net/champions/tristana#statistics

The problem:

I believe the biggest weakest about Tristana is her midgame.
Unlike other AD carries who carry their team midgame, Tristana needs to be carried by her teammates instead.

The thing about her midgame is that in teamfights, she simply can't jump in to fight, and her autoattack damage isn't good enough yet. E active is a very weak DoT. So, all she has is her autos and her ult in a midgame fight, which is rather mediocre.

The problem with an ordinary buff.

Tristana is in an awkward place to buff.
If you buff her base damage, her early game will be nearly unstoppable with an hyperaggressive support.
If you buff her utility, her already godlike lategame will just become more godlike.

The solution:

As of right now, most of her early game burst comes from her jump.
What I propose is switching the damage source from her W to her E.

1. Reduce W's damage (hell, make it 0 for all I care), but keep the utility.

2. Make E active an AA modifier; that way, the range scales with level.
3. E active base damage is lowered, but it now scales off AD.
4. Half of total damage of E active is frontloaded in the first tick, rest are distributed over 4 seconds.
5. E passive can be toggled.
6. Lower the cooldown on E active as necessary. (16 seconds at all levels currently)
7. E active resets autoattack timer. (Like Sivir W)

Thoughts?

Please bump if you agree. Feel free to disagree, but please use reason if you're going to argue.


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Trolosaurus

Senior Member

10-10-2012

.....Yeah. This sounds good.
I honestly think Explosive Shot needs to only have it's range scale with level.
Everything else I agree with.


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Renicade

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

You want to turn Tristana to Darius. No thanks.


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Hieronymus Bosch

Senior Member

10-10-2012

I think what she needs is just for her W to feel less clunky as well as E and R to scale with her passive. Then she'd be all good

I don't support changing her ratios to AD; AP tristana is a very fun build that I'd hate to see die.

Also, her steroid is fine as it is.


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Burbinator

Senior Member

10-10-2012

ALL I WANT IS TO bE ABLE TO TURN E PASSIVE OFF SO I CAN FARM UNDER TOWER OR FREEZE LANE

trist has some problems compared to other champions but i honestly feel like she has enough strengths to make up for them. i like the spot she's in


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Lemano

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renicade View Post
You want to turn Tristana to Darius. No thanks.
How am I turning her into Darius? Nothing in her kit screams execute to death with an axe, or even anything that revolves around constant 4 second AoE of his Q or even a pull in.

Instead of just writing stuff down saying it's like another hero without reading the entire post, you could read the entire post first and come up with a more thought out response of why you dislike the changes I think Trist needs, to help her out in her early and mid game.


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TwilghtSpark

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Tristana really does need the ori treatment, needs to be smoothed out a bit but not much more. I also really like your idea of making her passive work on all her skills but that would probably cause their base ranges to fall a bit.


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Lemano

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronymus Bosch View Post
I think what she needs is just for her W to feel less clunky as well as E and R to scale with her passive. Then she'd be all good

I don't support changing her ratios to AD; AP tristana is a very fun build that I'd hate to see die.

Also, her steroid is fine as it is.
Her W is a bit clunky as well as her E, her R probably has the best response in terms of less clunky; IMO. Her auto attack is extremely clunky when trying to last hit, and is not as responsive as some others out there (Ez, Graves to name a couple).

I think that her power to be able to have an AP build is holding her back in terms of what she was meant to be; an AD carry. She's one of the oldest heroes in the league which have had AP ratios to 'boost' the ability of their abilities, so to speak. This is where I'll point you guys to the Slygoat thread of how AP is outdated on some heroes, especially on AD carries.

The entirety of her kit screams out being able to right click, and having the AP ratios so to speak hold her back. Again this is just my opinion.

I think her steroid isn't that strong of a feel of being a 'hero' when it's on. 7 seconds is in no way a long enough time to auto attack efficiently, especially if you have to kite and jump away if you get caught from your position. I just want to see an increase in the duration and lower in the CD to make her feel a more of a hero late game like Kog does with his W on.

Thanks for the feed back!


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BaII

Senior Member

10-10-2012

bump has a lot of interesting information


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Lemano

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwilghtSpark View Post
Tristana really does need the ori treatment, needs to be smoothed out a bit but not much more. I also really like your idea of making her passive work on all her skills but that would probably cause their base ranges to fall a bit.
I agree as well, she's extremely clunky especially as one of the older heroes of the league.


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