Lulu support question.

First Riot Post
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Kaolla

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenXylaphone View Post
I find the irony super hilarious. Re-read my post or the quote you quoted please.
why do you find your own shortcomings super hilarious.

if you want a poke char, sona does it and has a heal

if you want a shield char, janna does it and has better late game presence

i don't understand why you would bring up that lulu has 3 CCs. that's not an advantage, janna also has 3 CCs which are better.

taric : advantage tanky as balls, team aura
alistar : stupidly strong kill lane presence for a support with a heal
karma : has a heal AND a shield
nidalee : ridiculous damage poke mediocre heal
kayle : decent supporting damage mediocre heal
soraka : 2 heals, mana thingy

lulu : AP buff which is pretty much useless in this meta

are you seeing it now? lulu doesn't bring anything USEFUL to the table


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CopperKitten

Player Support Billing Lead

10-10-2012
2 of 3 Riot Posts

One I haven't gotten to try much but I want to is to pair up with is Shyvana. I think they have abilities that compliment each other very well - Lulu hangs back a bit and builds Shyvana up with buffs and shields, Shy wades in and lays down the smack! It's so much fun.

Graves also does well in sustained combat, and helps give Lulu a chance to work up to her later game power. She can sometimes be a little fragile early on, which in my experience Graves helps counter by being a pretty tough customer from the get go - maybe it's just that I play with such extraordinary people.


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Varshil

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotCopperKitten View Post
One I haven't gotten to try much but I want to is to pair up with is Shyvana. I think they have abilities that compliment each other very well - Lulu hangs back a bit and builds Shyvana up with buffs and shields, Shy wades in and lays down the smack! It's so much fun.

Graves also does well in sustained combat, and helps give Lulu a chance to work up to her later game power. She can sometimes be a little fragile early on, which in my experience Graves helps counter by being a pretty tough customer from the get go - maybe it's just that I play with such extraordinary people.
Lulu is excellent to have on a team with someone like Shyvana or Malphite who initiate by diving their huge body right into the middle of the enemy team. Then Lulu makes them even bigger!


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Szase

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Lulu is definitely a great support choice in ranked. With a winrate of 72% with Lulu at 74 games I find E should be used to extend the range of your Q or to get your passive onto a carry, its not my main harass spell.

My build is R>Q>E>W with a point in W at 4. Harass all day with Q's (get all the gold masteries and grab two fairy charms at the start sell one off later) Lulu is really good at pushing enemy supports of of their bush and ADC's back behind their turrets. With whimsy as an escape you can make sure you and your ADC get away when the jungler approaches (Keep tribush and dragon warded). Then just poke the enemies with Q, slap out E's so you can Q them when tehy are behind their turret. Heavy harass will save the day.

Later game you have two jobs. Peel, and get initiated on. I find my team will win almost any engagement if I'm the one who gets caught by everything. With some minor defensive items (HoG, Aegis) plus your ult you will live through most burst situations leaving the enemies waiting on cooldowns, whimsy their ADC then flash away and start peelign with Q and W's while shielding your ADC. Another useful tactic if your team is the one initiating is to put your ult on your main initiator when they go in, Xin, WW, LeeSin, Amumu, their initiations all benefit greatly from an AOE knockup and slow.

Lulu is extremely disruptive and will usually sway a team fight in your teams favor, she is really fast with whimsy and can make for a great chaser, or a great runner. If you are losing team fights but notice the enemy team has the need to chase down low health targets in team fights get low and start running, force them to abandon their team mates to chase you around as you dash through the jungle wasting time and slowing them.


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CopperKitten

Player Support Billing Lead

10-10-2012
3 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koechophe View Post
If you are still here, can you PLEASE answer this question:

Why was lulu mid nerfed out of viability? I really loved the playstyle, and now it's not viable whatsoever.
I'm not in on these decisions, so I can't say why any of the changes were made for sure. But if you're asking after my 2 cents: I can see the challenge in Lulu balance being that because she is a jack of multiple trades you walk a careful line. Have to make sure she doesn't become too powerful at any one and overshadow a specialized champ who doesn't have the flexibility, but you still want her to be a viable choice for the roles so nerfs into oblivion don't help, either.

I'm sorry I don't have a more specific answer for you on this one. I'm super partial to playing her support, so I don't take her mid very often and don't have a lot of experience for comparison.


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FrozenXylaphone

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHomo View Post
why do you find your own shortcomings super hilarious.

if you want a poke char, sona does it and has a heal

if you want a shield char, janna does it and has better late game presence

i don't understand why you would bring up that lulu has 3 CCs. that's not an advantage, janna also has 3 CCs which are better.

taric : advantage tanky as balls, team aura
alistar : stupidly strong kill lane presence for a support with a heal
karma : has a heal AND a shield
nidalee : ridiculous damage poke mediocre heal
kayle : decent supporting damage mediocre heal
soraka : 2 heals, mana thingy

lulu : AP buff which is pretty much useless in this meta

are you seeing it now? lulu doesn't bring anything USEFUL to the table
3 cc is an advantage towards Sona.

If you want to compare other supports you have to compare playstyle. Sona was a fine comparison though because of similar style.

Lulu also outranges Sona with a 925 range poke that can be extended to 1550 range max.

And you are the one exposing shortcomings. My post compared Sona but you brought up Janna.
That is called lack of reading comprehension which you ironically tried to project.
Let me give you an example of what you did since you are oblivious.

Guy 1: coke and sprite are better than dr.pepper
Guy 2: no dr.pepper is way better than coke because coke has this ingredient whereas dr.pepper has this ingredient

Guy 1: Fail. Listen to what I said. Sprite has this ingredient

Lesson is that no one cares what ingredient sprite has because no one challenged you on sprite.


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Shosuko

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

I play lulu in ranked a lot, she has my highest win rate out of my most played champs with 65%

I typically go with q harass and e for shielding, but if the adc is safe I'll switch it up and use e for harass with q for further damage of the enemy lines up for a double hit.

I also play sona, but the main advantage of Lulu over Sona is that lulu can check bushes and target her damage. Sona's sustain will out weigh lulu's damage, so I can definitely see Sona as a counter to lulu, but I don't see lulu as a weaker Sona.

Also I think Lulu's ults is one of the best ults to bring when you're against something like Fizz, MF, or any team that is gonna bring 3+ ignites. The fact that it's flat bonus health is too good.


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ploki122

Senior Member

10-10-2012

i feel like she I also play lulu a lot in ranked and honestly, she really has her place as a support...build-wise. I play her very similar to janna, since their goals are roughly the same :
1. Early, you want to trade better than your opponents and wreck it all up within 2-3 trades so they can't outsustain you (since you don't really have any)
2A. If you are winning lane, you start roaming a bit while you adc is free farming bot, he should be able to freeze lane near tower, outpoke them if they try to poke (since you are winning lane and thus have the advantage). Use your many CC/buffs to win other lanes and if you managed to get a couple of assists (or stole 1-2 kills) get an early oracle to unward everything. NB: if you bought oracle, you should sow down on the roaming, or roam more carefully (more wards and don't go in their jungle ever)
2B. If you are losing lane, Buy 1-2 pinks, ask the jungler if he can gank within 3-4 mins and make sure that whenever he's ready to gank he has at least 1-2 ganking paths unwarded. The higher elo you reach, the harder it'll be... but worst case, you can use unwarding to bait them into a trap (like you remove a ward and sit inside dragon waiting for him to ward farther. Just make sure your adc has the easiest time farming, you'll need it later on.
3A. End-Game : If your adc is really fed, play protect the carry, you should use yuor W to stop bruisers or hasten your carry depending on which one gives the best result (if adc can kill the diver, polymorph, otherwise, slow+hasten and he can kite endlessly... and I really mean endlessly). If the pressure on your adc is too high, you can ult him, it'll give him a free 1-2s and a slow aura to kite even more. Basically, all you have end-game (apart from a tiny little bit of damage) is a crapload of utility...play accordingly.
3B. If your initiator is fed, just hasten him and ult him when he initiates, that's give him a chase aura, an AP boost to initiate as well as a shield if you E'd him. from there you can even glitterlance the adc from a safe distance.
3C. No one is fed, just ward the map a bit and if someone ever gets out of position, polymorph + Q + E... he'll have -60 base speed, -80% speed and you'll have vision of him even if he stealths/run. If there is 1-2 dps near you, it should be an easy kill.

During laning, it all depends on what you are up against... I can't remember who represented the game that way, but he said mid was simply a conundrum and that all players and items can be scaled from "farming" to "ganking" and that the goal was simply to understand what is your opponent's goal and to make sure he has a lot of trouble doing so. Imo, the same exists bot except it's about "aggressive" or "passive". For example, Janna is all about "aggressive", she offers little to no sustain, excels at small quick trades and has CC to manage some kills, where as soraka is more about "passive". She has a huge heal, a mana boost to make sure your adc can use skills to farm, a silence to prevent intiations and a way to get assists in other lanes. Then you have Taric and Lulu... who can be played either way... basically, they must do both to do well... Taric will never win a lane if he only level W and E (for shorter cd) and pokes at every single occasions... He is quite squishy and will get outtraded and/or kited pretty quickly... So basically, he has to play passive and use every single mistake the opponent does against them.
Lulu is in an even more median point... She basically is the most versatile support (imo). If you play against a trade lane, you'll want to always poke when you have the opportunity to do so without getting hit back. If you are against a sustain lane, use your AA and innate to trade blows when they try to cs he'll have to choose between running oom from sustaining himself and losing the cs. If you are against a kill lane, use your shield and CC to stop their initiations, they are bad at farming and are really bad against ganks (especially if you bait a bad initiation). If you manage to get the lead, a kill lane that can't kill isn't much...

So yeah, basically, in my opinion, Lulu is all about poking and repelling initiations. Also, she can escape really well and the more you troll them, the harder they'll rage... and solo queue is the paradise for ragers...

I usually run 0/9/21 masteries on her (but i do so for nearly every single supports) because I love having my exhaust up before their and I choose defense over offense because well... she IS squishy... For runes, I use GP5 yellows, and Quints, Magic Pen reds and flat MR glyphs (since most trades will be skill-based and will deal you magic damages). I usually start fairie + 3 wards + 3 pots (2red, 1 blue) since it allows me to trade more than their support. Always make sure you have a ward in river (or be the ward if you used them all already). Since you have a big slow and a haste, you shouldn't need warding really far early on. Then I usually complete philo by 1st trip (2nd if things went sour, first trip being only more wards and pots), but 680 should be your mark (620 for philo, +75 for 1 ward, you'll get the remaining 15g when recalling+shopping), try to trade heavily before that mark and make sure they won't init on your carry while you're away. Then depending on how well it goes, I either buy a 2nd gp5 right away and ward far enough so I can run away from ganks in time, or buy boots first and play a bit more carefully. After GP5s I get lv2 boots (I often run boots3 to have better chasing/escape potential... you running faster mean you can hasten your adc and still survive), aegis (tanky Lulu = tiresome Lulu) and then depending on my team's need either Abyssal, for damage, Zeke, for team support, FH against a fed adc/bruiser. You should try to get your Shurelia when they buy their so you can match it.hold on your last gp5 until you have to upgrade it. If your team is doing fine and your 2nd ocmpleted item makes you a bit tanky, you can choose to swap out your GP5 for a leviathan + oracle... that alone will taunt them into focusing you and you should be able to tank them... and the more you tank them, the tankier you get... until you blunder.


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mikkozak

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by leon996 View Post
Since this is a Lulu thread, I must ask, what motivation is there to pick Lulu if Sona is open? Whenever I play ranked and Sona is open, but I want to try to justify a Lulu pick (just because she is fun), I can't seem to justify the pick. I am not hating on Lulu, but I just want to know.

When I pick Lulu, I tend to try to play her like Sona. Is that the wrong play style for Lulu?
The motivation is simple: this is a game! Play to have fun. Of course in ranked you'll want to keep in mind counterpicking (which nobody does anymore) but other than that, if you're not terribly out-matched, play whoever you want.


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buttermilkpcakes

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHomo View Post
Speed whole team > extra auto attack damage
Line Knockup > Line slow
Shield + AD > Shield
AoE knockback + Healing > Single Target heal + AoE knockup + persisting slow

Movespeed + AP or Single target disable > single target slow or self movespeed

janna : 4
lulu : 1

janna is the better character
my head hurts so much right now


do you really think that by leaving things out and oversimplifying Lulu's abilities, your point actually stands as a valid one? As jiji would say, h4h4 l0l