@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Echorion

Senior Member

10-09-2012

I have a question...

Why are monsters/void creatures always male? Can't we get a female monster, the closest thing we have to one right now is Shyvanna who can only transform into a dragon, and even that is for a very short period of time.


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MTaur

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
I...wait...what?
Well, there's real life, where nipples don't shoot lasers. But I don't want Lux's nipples to shoot lasers, either... but she's a *fantasy*, so they *should* shoot lasers, because fantasy =/= reality. But something seems off about that, and I don't buy it. There's just something that I don't understand here. Maybe someone can explain how fantasy works to me.

She could turn her back to the enemy, keep her feet planted, and turn her spine 180 degrees to face the enemy and shoot the lasers to do this, too. Because that's fantasy. If it's fantasy, then that's all there is to it, end of story. Never mind whose fantasy or why, it's just fantasy and therefore irreproachable.

Am I doing it right yet? To me it just sounds like a really bad and lazy idea, but at the same time, it's definitely fantasy. I'm really confused.


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Hawkwing

Junior Member

10-09-2012

As a gay gamer, I have to respectfully disagree on some of the male champions you called out as underdressed but non-sexualized. I think given roughly the same amount of clothing/skin ratio, the degree of sexualization is not something entirely in the hands of the developer or artist, but also the disposition of the audience. Basically, I'm saying that you appear to be dismissing Tryndamere, Varus, Lee Sin, Penta Olaf, and Pantheon as under-sexualized because you don't find them sexy. Bodybuilders are 'nasty'? That's an entirely subjective statement and you went on to turn it into a blanket generalization. I happen to find bulky-built men incredibly sexy. For me, Tryndamere, Varus, Lee Sin, Penta Olaf, and Pantheon are quite sexy, and quite sexual. Their splash art highlights their masculinity and their physical prowess (bulging arms, pecs, naked in the cold, heroic stance, being a drummer, etc). And physical dominance, my dear, is sexy. To me. And muscle are unsexy. To you. I agree on your points that female champions are overwhelmingly (and quite disproportionately) oversexualized, but I think you have to turn your subjectivity down a notch when it comes to male champions and what makes or breaks sexual objectification for them.

Unfortunately, societal gender role and values come into play here and that's a very messy thing to buck against. For instance, I find Pantheon's splash art of him looking aggressive as all hell and very tense to be rather hot. But that's because society teaches us that males *should* be sexually aggressive and dominant. That's not something Riot can magic away, they just have to be more aware of how they cater to both their drawn-to-males and drawn-to-females audience.

PS: Additionally, MY list of sexy male champs:
Nasus - Great arms, great thighs, especially if you look at the Chinese splash. Then again he's a dog. So...yeah.
Garen - Good lord, this man has the jawline of a Greek god. I can't decide if I want to run away with Rugged Garen or Desert Trooper Garen.
Ryze - Shoulders! Biceps! Pecs! Abs! Are you sure this guy is a spell-flinging mage? Because damn, he is BUILT. A few points off for that god-awful beard though. Can we get a sexy Five O' Clock Shadow Ryze, or Well-Trimmed Ryze?
Malzahar - Ok, to be honest I didn't think Malzahar was hot until I saw Taco Storm.
Xin Zhao - Oh. My. God. HERE is Xin Zhao's original design. I would follow this man. To my grave. This looks like a man fierce in battle, stoic in the evening, and gentle in bed. This is the man my man could smell like. The final design? 7/10, would still do. I mean, look at the Chinese splash for the Viscero skin. Now THAT is a gladiator.
Gangplank - He's a pirate. Before his remodeling he had some serious pec cleavage and chest hair going on, and after his remodeling he found some very well-defined biceps. He can board my deck however he likes.
Jarvan IV - Look at his classic skin. Look at it! Those pecs! Those abs! That tight black spandex! Seriously, Jarvan. That **** is for ballet and modern dancers.
Udyr - Don't laugh, but I think a hippie who communes with wild animals is attractive in his own way. Granted, he probably smells funny and doesn't know what shampoo is, but when you're both at Burning Man, who's gonna care?


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Echorion

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkwing View Post
As a gay gamer, I have to respectfully disagree on some of the male champions you called out as underdressed but non-sexualized. I think given roughly the same amount of clothing/skin ratio, the degree of sexualization is not something entirely in the hands of the developer or artist, but also the disposition of the audience. Basically, I'm saying that you appear to be dismissing Tryndamere, Varus, Lee Sin, Penta Olaf, and Pantheon as under-sexualized because you don't find them sexy. Bodybuilders are 'nasty'? That's an entirely subjective statement and you went on to turn it into a blanket generalization. I happen to find bulky-built men incredibly sexy. For me, Tryndamere, Varus, Lee Sin, Penta Olaf, and Pantheon are quite sexy, and quite sexual. Their splash art highlights their masculinity and their physical prowess (bulging arms, pecs, naked in the cold, heroic stance, being a drummer, etc). And physical dominance, my dear, is sexy. To me. And muscle are unsexy. To you. I agree on your points that female champions are overwhelmingly (and quite disproportionately) oversexualized, but I think you have to turn your subjectivity down a notch when it comes to male champions and what makes or breaks sexual objectification for them.

Unfortunately, societal gender role and values come into play here and that's a very messy thing to buck against. For instance, I find Pantheon's splash art of him looking aggressive as all hell and very tense to be rather hot. But that's because society teaches us that males *should* be sexually aggressive and dominant. That's not something Riot can magic away, they just have to be more aware of how they cater to both their drawn-to-males and drawn-to-females audience.

PS: Additionally, MY list of sexy male champs:
Nasus - Great arms, great thighs, especially if you look at the Chinese splash. Then again he's a dog. So...yeah.
Garen - Good lord, this man has the jawline of a Greek god. I can't decide if I want to run away with Rugged Garen or Desert Trooper Garen.
Ryze - Shoulders! Biceps! Pecs! Abs! Are you sure this guy is a spell-flinging mage? Because damn, he is BUILT. A few points off for that god-awful beard though. Can we get a sexy Five O' Clock Shadow Ryze, or Well-Trimmed Ryze?
Malzahar - Ok, to be honest I didn't think Malzahar was hot until I saw Taco Storm.
Xin Zhao - Oh. My. God. HERE is Xin Zhao's original design. I would follow this man. To my grave. This looks like a man fierce in battle, stoic in the evening, and gentle in bed. This is the man my man could smell like. The final design? 7/10, would still do. I mean, look at the Chinese splash for the Viscero skin. Now THAT is a gladiator.
Gangplank - He's a pirate. Before his remodeling he had some serious pec cleavage and chest hair going on, and after his remodeling he found some very well-defined biceps. He can board my deck however he likes.
Jarvan IV - Look at his classic skin. Look at it! Those pecs! Those abs! That tight black spandex! Seriously, Jarvan. That **** is for ballet and modern dancers.
Udyr - Don't laugh, but I think a hippie who communes with wild animals is attractive in his own way. Granted, he probably smells funny and doesn't know what shampoo is, but when you're both at Burning Man, who's gonna care?
And did you see the new artwork for Myrmidon Pantheon? God damn <3

Something about a strong black man in a tight metal skirt....


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Missyeru

Senior Member

10-09-2012

I can't believe i read ALL of that!!

I think a lot of people are a little harsh on the 'over sexualized' of female characters. To me there are many different definitions of sexy, and it's not going to be easy to NOT make a character sexy. As a female myself i'm not offended that there are breasts showing in some of the artwork. I however think characters such as Leona, Diana, Kayle, Fiora are EXTREMELY sexy.

It's not about how much skin you show, its about your attitude and presence. I also think characters such as Curella Deville and Tank Girl are extremely sexy too...

As far as variety goes I personally would like to see more unique silhouettes


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Ailias

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahriel View Post
an athletic women is skinny, has a nice butt, and boob size varies.
No, not necessarily and probably not at all.

An athletic woman, depending entirely on her athletic acticivity is not always skinny, her butt is completely irrelevant and boobs are usually smaller due to the lower amount of body fat.

Trim would probably be a better word than skinny and none are ever as waife like as the character models in LoL. They also have definition which makes a huge difference.

On top of this, there is a huge difference between an athelete and a warrior. Athlete's may be slim like gymnasts etc, but they aren't required to output power, that requires muscle mass.

Take the below pic of a female boxer, this looks completely different to ANY model in LoL and yet these characters supposedly perform similar roles to this boxer. Riven certainly doesn't have biceps like that to carry that ridiculous sword.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/wri.../coenen-st.jpg


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Ailias

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkwing View Post
Basically, I'm saying that you appear to be dismissing Tryndamere, Varus, Lee Sin, Penta Olaf, and Pantheon as under-sexualized because you don't find them sexy.
No the difference is is that these champs look like the role they are designed to play. Pantheon is a Gladiator, they were reknowned for wearing very little and being huge. These champs all fit into their background and skill set. Many of the female champs don't.

The main message in the OP is that male and female champs are treated differently based on ***. Male champs look like what they're meant to, female champs primarily look hot and may not look anything like what they should. Riot Graves and Officer Caitlyn are the classic example, Graves looks like a riot squad member, Caitlyn just looks like a ****. That there is the entire argument.


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Superscope

Member

10-09-2012

As a male. I myself find it a bit Annoyed at the constant over-sexed females.

Don't get me wrong. I like women like the majority of males, it's just that riot do seem to enjoy designing the large chested, poorly clothed females. (I think they take their design clues off the game Soul Cailbur or something.)

Has riot ever thought of adding in a flat chested women for once? Someone who realistically would be less hampered by their own body weight in a fight?


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Kotobuki Tsumugi

Junior Member

10-09-2012

I really have nothing to add to the discussion, I just wanted to take a moment and say that this thread is stupid. People are trying to inject realism into this when its just a videogame. Impracticality of armor and covering up skin literally means nothing to pixels. Also Whats sexy and attractive isn't the same for everyone.


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Ðemøns in my hæd

Member

10-09-2012

It's only a matter of time before there's 'League of Legends: A XXX Parody'.