Is playing as Jax in Dom a moral issue?

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Catnium

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

as long as bruiser yi can take on a jax 1 vs 1 i wont say jax is a moral issue to play


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
as long as bruiser yi can take on a jax 1 vs 1
Wut?

Pics or it didn't happen. How can yi take out THE 1v1 champion that has 3 seconds of free damage and an interrupt for your meditate?


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Emeraldw

Senior Member

10-09-2012

People supposedly are suggesting counters and I do not see one.

Malphite/nunu? haha, no. They can't out-push jax, they can't win duels against jax and jax will get sustain to survive harass.

Jax is straight up broken in Dominion. He doesn't have counters to him bot lane, especially as the game goes on. He excels in skirmishes and duels, which is mainly what Dominion is.

There are other good champions in dominion, but they are good for different reasons.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrignardTS View Post
Worst I've seen Jayce do: "Oh look, he traded for 50% of my HPs and I didn't touch him..."

Worst I've seen Jax do: "Oh look, Jax just took out 60% of my team by himself..."

TL;DR: The thing that is most scary about Jax is that he's a tankyderp that scales comparable to Vanye. And in Dominion, you know he will get to this point. Every. Single. Game.
1. More of a trader, but as Jayce I'd fight people - Wukong, Ezreal, Kassadin, and take down 80% of their HP by the time they took down 20% of mine, maybe. Not to mention if sieging a point I can do hefty poke until they close and then insta-burst them with 4 AAs (AA>W for a nearly insta-burst).

2. It's important to remember tanky items are often underpriced, because tanks on SR often get less gold/it's often awkward to find a time to place their purchase over damage items.
Tanky items are overpowered, as items. Your tanks will also be farmed, and anyone on your team can buy these items.

Sure, Jax at a certain point can outmuscle through most of those, but you're also much tankier than the enemies Jax usually faces on SR.


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ShawNuff

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Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrignardTS View Post
TL;DR: The thing that is most scary about Jax is that he's a tankyderp that scales comparable to Vanye. And in Dominion, you know he will get to this point. Every. Single. Game.
No tanky DPS out-scales a ranged carry... period.


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawNuff View Post
No tanky DPS out-scales a ranged carry... period.
Arguably, Jax is currently considered the only hyper carry this game has. There is a reason for this.

I meant scale in terms of overal power and impact, not straight dps. Although I'm sure if you compared them side by side. Actually, let's do that.

Let's say a baseline AD carry. Jax vs. Graves.

Builds:
Jax
Boots, Rageblade, Gunblade, Trinity, Rylai's, Atmas

Graves
Boots, Sanguine, PD, IE, LW, Defensive item

Assume:
L18
No ramp of skills (Rageblade), So it's max dps. This is more for ease of math.
No resistances.
No masteries or runes.

Jax:
as 1.938244
ad 267.5
ap 273
crit 33%

Leap: 543.8 damage
Empower: 343.8 damage
Ult: 411.1 damage every 4th attack
Sheen: 117.5 damage

Graves:
as 1.276875 or 1.714375 (under quickdraw)
ad 321.8
crit 55%

Buckshot: 630 (maximum assumed)
Collateral Dmg: 702

In 30 seconds:
Jax does:
10 Empowers
5 Leaps
58 AAs
14 Ultimate procs
15 Sheen procs

Total damage:
34309.85

Total dps:
1143.661667

In 30 seconds:
Graves does
41 AAs
4 Buckshots
2 Quickdraws
1 Collateral Damage

Total damage:
27300.685

Total dps:
910.0228333

The assumptions of no ramping and no resistances favor jax's dps, but the difference of 200 dps between the two should make it clear. Jax has carry level damage. You can say Jax has a built DPS item over Graves, but with 4 pure dps items already on Graves, you would be crazy to not build at least 1 pure defensive item in a final Dominion item build.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Malphite/nunu? haha, no. They can't out-push jax, they can't win duels against jax and jax will get sustain to survive harass.
Eh? Those two heroes have been explicitly demonstrated to beat Jax in bot lane. We are talking Sauron level Jax.


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Orphane

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrignardTS View Post

Builds:
Jax
Boots, Rageblade, Gunblade, Trinity, Rylai's, Atmas
The hell
is
this
build


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GrignardTS

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
The hell
is
this
build
I guess a bad one?

I don't know, I don't play Jax lol...

If this is bad then it only furthers my point.

Just because it's not Sauron's doesn't mean it's horrible...

Edit: Yea, I looked up his build. The 30% CDR from GB and Lucidity would make his DPS skyrocket. I still like gunblade and rageblade though. Rageblade synergizes perfectly with his kit. Replace Rylai's with GB and add Ludicity would probably increase his DPS by 200/300 more. Adding Zerker on Graves may give him 150 more dps.


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ShawNuff

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Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrignardTS View Post
Arguably, Jax is currently considered the only hyper carry this game has. There is a reason for this.

I meant scale in terms of overal power and impact, not straight dps. Although I'm sure if you compared them side by side. Actually, let's do that.

-snip-
Anyone that has played the game for any length of time knows that Melees get better abilities/steroids than ranged DPS. This does not affect the fact that Ranged DPS are the top scaling class in the game, bar none.

Some factors to consider:
1.) CCs. Two types: hard and soft. A hard CC will stop DPS from both a ranged carry and a tanky DPS, but for different lengths of time. A ranged carry's damage is generally only affected for the number value of the CC because they can still fight from range, while the Tanky DPS is now out of range and must close the gap to begin outputting damage again. A slow only really affects an ADC's ability to escape/chase, but does not have a large effect on damage output (ignoring wither/iceball... just a vanilla "Ashe esque" slow) while a slow on a melee can put their damage output to zero until they get back on top of their target

2.) Itemization: A ranged carry is generally immune to group focus unless out of position. This allows a much more aggressive itemization route because they don't have to worry about tanking random damage. A ranged DPS (in addition to not having to always build merc treads) can build 4 highly damaging items and 1 defensive item while the Tanky DPS must always build some amount of tank items or just be destroyed due to point 1. This is also the part where I point out that your Jax build is horrible.

3.) Damage on Paper =/= damage in a game. Probably the most important point. Even in a 1v1 scenario, a melee dps will not get their on paper values for damage just because the enemy can move. Part of the reason Trinity force is so good on melees like Jax is the delta movespeed between you and the enemy you are attacking which allows you to get more attacks off against running opponents. Also why Warden's mail is one of the top items in the game... it ruins a tanky DPS's damage output if they are chasing you.

TL;DR
Late game, if I could protect 2 ranged carries, I would easily take them over 2 Jaxs.


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