@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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Shaella

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
There's only so much I can do at one time...
So what you're saying is I should clone you


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mogonk

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
What's gay posing? How do you gay pose by yourself?
Oh, you didn't know?

When a man is portrayed in a sexualized way it's "homoerotic", because the viewer is ALWAYS assumed to be male.


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Fairness

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Huh, an elegant champion with the name Dianna. I like the way you think.
HAHAHA, actually when I first heard about Diana I was really, really excited, I wanted her to be exactly like Dianna Agron. You guys blew it out of the water though, I loved the direction you went with the lore, style and everything, I love everything about Diana.
I also love how she's so independent and brutal yet you can't help but feel sorry for her, there's a lot of vulnerability there which is really interesting. I think she's one of the few champions (not just female) that aren't so one dimensional.


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Emailsúpport

Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairness View Post
I also think Dianna Agron is a really good example of someone who is stunning, yet not ****ty at all.
Look at her, she's so elegant, graceful and classy (and independent). Female champions don't need to be ugly, androgynous, too old, too young or scared/shy to not be overly-sexualised, they just need to not be overly-sexualised if that makes sense. I'm definitely not saying that we shouldn't have those kinds of champions I listed above (diversity is great), I'm just saying that there can be beautiful, yet classy women.
Implying that any of the female champions is not self dependent. They're all self dependent with I ain't need no man mentality, tough, cold blooded murders. I thought the problem was the way the dressed or their similar body types.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-07-2012
53 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaella View Post
So what you're saying is I should clone you
I'd be cool with that. Do you have any idea how many Leona skins there'd be?


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogonk View Post
oh, you didn't know?

When a man is portrayed in a sexualized way it's "homoerotic", because the viewer is always assumed to be male.
mmm


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Shaella

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironstylus View Post
i'd be cool with that. Do you have any idea how many leona skins there'd be?
all of the leona skins


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Kyryck

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogonk View Post
Oh, you didn't know?

When a man is portrayed in a sexualized way it's "homoerotic", because the viewer is ALWAYS assumed to be male.
Another posting amongst many in this thread that shows the poster's biases and not any actual fact. No, when a man is portrayed in a sexualized way it is not always viewed as 'homoerotic'. When men are perceived as being in a role that is not a traditional one associated with strength, manliness, confidence, etc, it tends to draw conversation about such things. But there have been many, MANY men portrayed in sexual fashion in the real world and not everybody runs around shrieking about them being gay. If they do, again, it suggests more about the critic than it does about the artwork involved (be it fictional or not).


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Pepperkat

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laetabilis View Post
On the subject, there's actually a champion archetype I've really been wanting to see, and I think would really set precedent for champions that "break the mold".
And that is: An old woman who is a sage or monk, filling either the support or mage role. It hasn't been done, and it's a champion type that I think this game could greatly use.
Lulu is centuries old and is a sorceress and a support. :3


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kenzoil

Member

10-07-2012

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have read some of the stuff that Ironstylus has addressed in this thread. To me, what is being stated about character design is very interesting. And I like to see the thought process being made in the riot feedback.

I want to address specifically character designer about how they are pushing proportions over shapes and it would be helpful to go back to pushing the basic shapes: Triangles, Circles, and squares. If you go back to early female character their shapes were pushed immensely to tell the story of the character with their silhouette alone. As an example, I am going to compare MF to Zyra (Old good design vs New Bad design [shape wise]). MF is very well designed character and her shapes represents her personality. She is an energetic female that runs into action and displays her presence. In short, she is a very active female. The designers pushed an abundance of triangles onto her shape.
It's best to address this in a bullet point format, so the list is as follows:
-triangle hat
-triangle lip of her boots
-triangle boot point
-triangle cloth around her forearm
-triangle thigh (her knee is abnormally small)
-Her stomach is a triangle (wide hips, skinny ribs)
- All the pushed triangle shapes of her overall volume are pushing up into her face and out through her hat making a statement that she is outgoing person.
-To represent her sturdiness in the face of danger, her torso is squared and shock and aww are squarish cylinders.
MF is one of my favorite designed female champs. Also, she WAS well animated. I will address that when animation is a topic, till then I will stick with character DESIGN.

Now lets break down Zyra's personality and Design. Zyra is an old mythical creature that captured an unsuspecting victim and took over their body. Zyra is an introvert in nature because of her life as a plant, and she is a smart creature that plots out her actions and executes them. Her design makes her look extrovert, energetic and bland. It's going be hard to break down the shapes of this character because her design is muddy, so I will try to point out her overall shape:
-Square Stomach
-Square torso
-parallelogram thigh (they are kind triangle too, it's very confusing)
-parallelogram calves (they are kind triangle too, it's very confusing)(Also, the legs are too skinny for a character that has been "rooted" for most of it's life, If anything her legs should be much bigger then the rest of her body, not lankier)
-Squared bicep
-Triangle Forearm
- Roundish triangle thorns (a very bad decision on a sinister character)
-Triangle head (point downwards, a very strong decision about a character that is "rooted")
-Overall she is top heavy which is counter intuitive to her lore and her personality. I could be wrong, and that's a problem when it's not clear in the character design.

MF shows that the character designer made strong decisions about her shape and how the shape represents her personality. On the other hand, Zyra is a bad example of effective character design, it feels like strong decisions of her personality and shapes were note made, and it shows. I am sure you guys put equal amount of time into both. But it shows that the older champion design was asking all the right question, how can we convey her past and personality with shapes. And the new champions shows that the character designers were asking the wrong question, how could we make her more plant like? instead of how to tell the story of the character using shapes.

Also, stop making male character that are primarily V shaped torso.

Anyways, this is my two cents, and I hope it was clear. And, It's hard to write about the conceptual psychological property of shapes and how to correct character designs to reflect a stronger knowledge of the subject. On a personal note, I am currently delving deeper into my understanding of the topic myself.

TL;DR Please push the basic shapes of champions.