@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-06-2012
4 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adumbro Deus View Post
Just would like to point out something that we were disussing (myself and the OP). Clothes or lack thereof do not truly equate to sexualization.

When talking about sexualization, it's all about the pose and it's REALLY frustrating when a character like fiora has an obviously sexualized pose (the broke back pose specifically because it looks like she's breaking her back to show both breasts and butt) but she's wearing plenty.


The main issue with this assumption is that it creates some rather unfortunate implications about women who dress in a similar manner. In feminist circles, that assumption is usually called sl*t-shaming and isn't looked on kindly, so it's something to keep in mind when discussing this topic.


Remember, the keyword is diversity when it comes to female champs. Not that we can't have sexualized female champs, but they should be consistent in terms of their overall character and there should be male champs who are sexualized other then tango twisted fate.

And yea, as said before, more variety in terms of female champs.
I get you and you're right. A sexualized pose can defeat the purpose of a de-sexualized character.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

lemonchief

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xengre View Post
As I said... artist failed to properly depict her waist.

In regards to Fiora.. claiming it is demoing her **** is just crude, and while it is demoing her ass the only real difference from a fencing pose would be her leg positioning. Nothing wrong with minor *** appeal (and that is certainly minor.. yet you claim it to be excruciatingly over the top).
I honestly don't have any problems whatsoever with Fiora. While I find her to be the most attractive female in the league, it's mainly due to her back story, attitude, and hair/face more than her body or incredibutt. Which are also nice. But her clothing and armor, in my estimation, make perfect sense. She is a duelist, so she'd favor lighter armor that primarily protects her vital areas. So I don't really understand the people that are pointing to her as an example of bad female character design.

Edit: also about the pose, I completely agree, especially in her two later skins. But ffs, she is pointing a sword directly at the camera.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kedali

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
He's sleek, trim and mildly feminine, but dang is that ever sexy as far as Iím concerned! Basically, anything Riot Taco Storm can cosplay as is something I'd really love to have more experiments like.
Is Riot Taco Storm widely considered sleek, trim, and mildly feminine?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MTaur

Senior Member

10-06-2012

#1 parrot bait NA.

I remember when there was, like, one tanky DPS adult human female in the whole game and twelve ADCs or something like that. And then Season Two happened, and we got Leona, Riven, Shyvana, and Sejuani.

So maybe something will happen here. I seriously doubt that they'll ever approach balance (stripper outfit/legit skin ratios among all champs...) but we might actually get something like a Diablo 3 barbarian woman. Eventually.

Set your imagination free, Parrot. I want to see 30 sketches of women who weigh more than 140 pounds... no, 170 pounds!... this time tomorrow. GOGOGO!!!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Adumu

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I'm actually rather amused by this topic. While I understand that some people take it very seriously, I simply cannot bring myself to feel the same way. To me, this entire conversation is just amusing.

I don't care about the whole "oversexualization" issue at all, even though I make frequent jokes/statements on how impractical many of the females are in their choice of armor. I mean, really Sivir? Really?

But yeah. As far as the skins go, they sell. And that, while not all that matters, is important.

Honestly, I think Riot should make that "unprepared Garen" skin just to even this entire issue out.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sylenis

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
I think its less that these females are sexualized and more that they are idealized.
It is the same way in classical art.
The ideal body and features are being showcased here. It's why the male characters have impossible muscle mass and muscles that don't even exist irl (Pentakill olaf, muoytai lee sin, tryndamere, etc)
As an artist I can understand the delight in drawing the "ideal, beautiful" specimen.
I can understand the exaggeration of this with a crazy waist or bust for a more cartoony style.
And this can be even more clear when the artist is trying to convey a certain theme (i.e. Zyra representing the wild, untamed, erotic side of nature, makes sense!)

I do think it would be interesting and exciting to see a different, new champion though. Such as a spider queen champ who's kind of ugly or scary looking and totally badass.
Being a female, AND an artist I can agree with a couple of your points. There are plenty non-sexualized champions in this game. Key point is, it's a game. If you don't want to buy the "sexy" Vayne or Riven skin, then don't; but don't keep making these stupid threads boasting about how Riot makes not attempt to change it up a little.
Iron Stylus has done quite a bit to bring us female champions who aren't they typical mold of super sexy, scantilly clad, female champs, and I really applaud him... (btw Iron Stylus I want your babies...) But your point about how there's no "man candy" for chicks to look at in game is incorrect. There are plenty male champions that are your strong alpha male type knights in shining armor that women would like (if they're into that whole, amg that hawt video game man stuff). But I don't think girls and women are going to make such a big deal about something that really has no relevance.

In regards to:
Quote:
One of my best friends is a girl gamer. She does play LoL, but only when playing with her boyfriend and myself. She feels marginalized by the LoL community, and Riot endorses this attitude indirectly. Whenever gender issues are brought up in these forums, there is a huge backlash. Itís almost as if gamers are threatened by this topic. They donít want them womenfolk to change their games to make them more inclusive. They like that Riot caters to the majority (straight white male). Any time someone makes a perfectly valid point about sexism, they are met with massive downvotes and malicious comments.
The truth is, if you can't handle playing video games on the internet... then don't. I used to play Halo at a competitive level between 2005-2006. I was on a sponsored team, but never was there a day when I didn't get trolled or called a ***** for being a girl who happened to be very good at a video game. Tell your friend she needs to get thicker skin. 95% of the people on the forums who flame women are cockless virgins who live in their mother's basements and need their asses wiped for them.

What I will say though supporting some of those people that flame is that, a lot of women and girls try to use their "*** appeal" to get attention and that't not right. I've seen it in Halo, I've seen it in WoW (which happened to be the reason many guilds collapsed, if anyone know's about the original <Death Wish> of Cho'gall/Scilla and many other accounts)... but it happens CONSTANTLY. I personally pride myself in having as FEW female friends as I can because 9/10 times they're obnoxious, ****ty, attention-craving and terrible at whatever video game is in question. These same women also like to brand themselves as "GAMER GIRLS" and think it's ok to be a plague and make the REAL female gamers want to shy away from the lime light.

Acting like an obnoxious ***** isn't ok and with e-sports getting big, more and more will come out of the woodwork because there's more ways for them to get attention like streaming ect.

Riot is doing a fine job with their diversity of champions, they have monsters, yordles, automatons, and humanoids (they could possibly venture into making a couple darker skinned humanoids) but they're pretty much covering most of it.

Please, get over the whole "Riot is being sexist" ****.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shaella

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adumu View Post
I'm actually rather amused by this topic. While I understand that some people take it very seriously, I simply cannot bring myself to feel the same way. To me, this entire conversation is just amusing.

I don't care about the whole "oversexualization" issue at all, even though I make frequent jokes/statements on how impractical many of the females are in their choice of armor. I mean, really Sivir? Really?

But yeah. As far as the skins go, they sell. And that, while not all that matters, is important.

Honestly, I think Riot should make that "unprepared Garen" skin just to even this entire issue out.
>implying its possible to make a Garen sexier than rugged
Adumu
adumu pls


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shaella

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drylln View Post
Being a female, AND an artist I can agree with a couple of your points. There are plenty non-sexualized champions in this game. Key point is, it's a game. If you don't want to buy the "sexy" Vayne or Riven skin, then don't; but don't keep making these stupid threads boasting about how Riot makes not attempt to change it up a little.
Iron Stylus has done quite a bit to bring us female champions who aren't they typical mold of super sexy, scantilly clad, female champs, and I really applaud him... (btw Iron Stylus I want your babies...) But your point about how there's no "man candy" for chicks to look at in game is incorrect. There are plenty male champions that are your strong alpha male type knights in shining armor that women would like (if they're into that whole, amg that hawt video game man stuff). But I don't think girls and women are going to make such a big deal about something that really has no relevance.

In regards to:
The truth is, if you can't handle playing video games on the internet... then don't. I used to play Halo at a competitive level between 2005-2006. I was on a sponsored team, but never was there a day when I didn't get trolled or called a ***** for being a girl who happened to be very good at a video game. Tell your friend she needs to get thicker skin. 95% of the people on the forums who flame women are cockless virgins who live in their mother's basements and need their asses wiped for them.

What I will say though supporting some of those people that flame is that, a lot of women and girls try to use their "*** appeal" to get attention and that't not right. I've seen it in Halo, I've seen it in WoW (which happened to be the reason many guilds collapsed, if anyone know's about the original <Death Wish> of Cho'gall/Scilla and many other accounts)... but it happens CONSTANTLY. I personally pride myself in having as FEW female friends as I can because 9/10 times they're obnoxious, ****ty, attention-craving and terrible at whatever video game is in question. These same women also like to brand themselves as "GAMER GIRLS" and think it's ok to be a plague and make the REAL female gamers want to shy away from the lime light.

Acting like an obnoxious ***** isn't ok and with e-sports getting big, more and more will come out of the woodwork because there's more ways for them to get attention like streaming ect.

Riot is doing a fine job with their diversity of champions, they have monsters, yordles, automatons, and humanoids (they could possibly venture into making a couple darker skinned humanoids) but they're pretty much covering most of it.

Please, get over the whole "Riot is being sexist" ****.
They're not being sexist, its just ****ing gaming in general thats that way

Sjust the mainstream brah


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-06-2012
5 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adumu View Post
Honestly, I think Riot should make that "unprepared Garen" skin just to even this entire issue out.
You have no idea.. NO IDEA.. how in love with the Unprepared Garen skin I am..

..or "Sexy Fireman Graves"


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Achenar

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Sorry, you guys are right. It's not just clothes, and my comment was pointed much more in that direction!

It's a combination of three things:
- body types, of which there currently isn't a lot of variation. Diana is a great start in theory, but it doesn't really show up much. We definitely need the variety Shaella talks about!
- clothes - not a problem in and of themselves, but a part of the whole
- presentation of the character. This is probably where things get messiest, because LoL is infamous for horrific Escher Girl poses. And while breaking a characters back to make a pose look dynamic is silly but okay, breaking their back so that they can show **** and arse at the same time is narrowing your marketing to a particular demographic.

The problem is that Riot tends to manage one out of three, in most cases, if that.