@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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x3 evoL

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Recruiter

10-06-2012

As a girl, I have no problem with the way the characters are portrayed. It is the same way in reality. Girls are showcased in a sexual manner. It has always been that way.

For me, the problem that I have is that MOST guys assume that I need to be carried and that I am going to support them when I would rather play a more aggressive role. **** gets real when girls get aggressive and most guys don't want to admit it when a girl is better than him in a male-dominated field.


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I agree with you.

What do you think of Viscero Xin Zhao? He's a throwback to Roman gladiators, whom female fans supposedly lost their minds over. His outfit is sexualized, and his body is not disgusting ó indeed, it seems like the most female players find him to be the most attractive male, though that's in his default skin. True, the Viscero art doesn't show off the un-armored side of his body, but it's obvious in the ingame skin. Viscero Xin Zhao might be the only male stripper skin.

It fits his lore, but whether it fits his lore is beside the point. Miss Fortune, Janna, Cass, and Ahri being sexualized also fit their lore. The point is that they are sexualized, not that the writer came up with an excuse.

So at least there is one possible sexualized male.


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Rachel

Member

10-06-2012

I think its less that these females are sexualized and more that they are idealized.
It is the same way in classical art.
The ideal body and features are being showcased here. It's why the male characters have impossible muscle mass and muscles that don't even exist irl (Pentakill olaf, muoytai lee sin, tryndamere, etc)
As an artist I can understand the delight in drawing the "ideal, beautiful" specimen.
I can understand the exaggeration of this with a crazy waist or bust for a more cartoony style.
And this can be even more clear when the artist is trying to convey a certain theme (i.e. Zyra representing the wild, untamed, erotic side of nature, makes sense!)

I do think it would be interesting and exciting to see a different, new champion though. Such as a spider queen champ who's kind of ugly or scary looking and totally badass.


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Kiddalee

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryswar View Post
Grow up and shut up.
Telling the author of a feminist thread to shut up. Surprising.


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Aerophobia

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviergn View Post
Chogath. that is all. ugly as ****, ass loads of skins.
Hes a monster and was designed to be a weird looking monster. Trundle on the other hand was designed to specifically be disgusting to look at. He is physically unappealing and that is what they were aiming for.. There is no flat out disgusting thing about cho'gath. You just say hes ugly because hes a monster. He doesnt have a deformed face and body. hes just....a monster.

These are the kind of posts i hate. Please do not spout opinions, think about what you are posting....


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Karolina

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Upvoted because of the kickass objective analysis, however, I don't have any issue with champion design (but I'm aware that some might).

And you forgot to say Rugged Garen is totally hawt.


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Malkire

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Member

10-06-2012

Only thing i can say about this subject that would be of any use is. Women's rights is an on going problem. In everything people of an Oppressed *** race poor or anything that makes a group feel inferior left out or in this case more sexual than the other. I see it only as a problem for the people offended, most people myself included don't give it much thought. My girlfriend dislikes some of the same things you do and i do agree that skins could be made that cover up the champions that you like to play. However I do see a lot of women who do play and do not complain in great detail that you describe. Riot taking down the creation that they have made, (story) just to make the women happy is also sexist imo. Stories are stories and are told in there own way, league members pervert it in ways like EZ and Taric, im sure you know what i mean about that. Garen turning into the rugged garen skin there are a lot on the male side as well. I think that you should play the game for what it is if you like it. If you cant stand it don't play it, girls play the game and seem to not mind at least ones i know.


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bowwowwoff

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

if girls dont want to play lol because of the way riot portrays females then good riddance, they never even liked the game then.... i do agree that there should be more variety in the way the female champions look, but that is not a reason for someone to stop playing a video game.

i do not like the way you are generalizing what you think most females think.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

10-06-2012
1 of 61 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
OH GOD NUMBERS
Holy **** that was a lot of well composed, extremely well thought-out points and a lot of data to back it up. I very much salute you! This is the stuff that's actually super useful for people like me in a position to help define our body types. I love this information and this amount of it because I can look and be like.. "Oh hey, I think I see where we can fill in some gaps!" You've actually saved me some work, and I owe you a coffee.

Funny thing is that a very nice young lady came and talked to me on the floor of the finals about this very same issue. She made similar points which I.. ya know.. agreed with, like I tend to on these subjects. That said, I don't think I can possibly address the entirely of this pose aside from stating what I've stated before. I believe we need to have breadth, depth and contrast in our characters. We need to have archetypal characters and non-conventional. This goes the same for body types, in this particular case, female body types.

Recently I've been doing some core exploratory work on our champions, past and present. I've developed an even more concrete belief that we need to vary female forms as our game angle requires pretty drastic differentiation in proportions between characters, especially females, to make them truly read as different. Right now, on paper, many of our females read differently, but when plugged into game angle they read as very similar body types. Diana, though having a pretty curvy lower body (larger thighs) and trimmer upper body with smaller breasts still looks in the same general category as Syndra though she's pretty overall standard voluptuous. My bad there. I might have pushed proportions on Diana even further. In fact, I'd like to go back to Diana and push proportions. I think we've standardized our females far too much, producing mainly costume changes. I really want us to focus on stylizing our females as much as we do with our males.

Make no mistake, this is something we have our eye on. I had a discussion with our Art Director about this issue just the other day. We want that barbarian woman who can smash any guy she might encounter, we want us to get the spindly tank-girl type who's far less exposed, we want utilitarian, we want majestic, we want creepy, we want it all. We also do want sexy, in all it's variations.

You also brought up something in there interesting about Varus. He is one of the only examples we have of a different take on males. We tend to make our males of sort of three types. Athletic, Heroic, or Hulk. So, Singed, Garen, and Mundo respectively. That generalization but there you have it. Varus hits a great sweet spot. He's quite androgynous, a bit more anime archetype. He's sleek, trim and mildly feminine, but dang is that ever sexy as far as Iím concerned! Basically, anything Riot Taco Storm can cosplay as is something I'd really love to have more experiments like.

Iím not quite sure Iíve hit on all or any of your points aside from providing you an assurance that weíre taking a hard look at our champions and some stuff is going to change as we go. As always Iíd love to keep this conversation going and see what more points come up in this thread. I apologize for not hitting everything but Iíve just gotten back from the finals which has been a rigorous thing today to say the least. Iím a little hug-drunk right now.

I really, REALLY appreciate all the hard work and analysis you put into this. It has certainly not gone unnoticed! This is information that I like to act on and I thank you for it!

I'll try to hit on more points in smaller doses.


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Daemon

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
-snip-

Look! My IronStylus summoning powers work!