@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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DJ Shyvana

Senior Member

10-06-2012

So, I've been following this since last night and after reading through nearly every page I have yet to find an answer to some thing I was perplexed about from the original post.

From the last paragraph of the original post;
"I just don’t understand why every female champion has to be young, thin, and attractive, but they aren’t afraid to deviate from that mold when they are making a male champion."

My question is, what mold for male champions are people looking for? What is considered handsome/sexy to the overwhelming majority of players that are interested in that kind of thing?
I would love to see even a rough sketch of a male champion that the vast majority of female summoners would consider sexy that could even be used as a mold. ( Don't take this as a challenge, It's a genuine curiosity.)


I guess I see the champions splash art (because that's what people are really upset about) as a proportional thing. I mean really, there seems to be something for everyone in respect to how many people enjoy those champions. I personally enjoy the Semi-humanoid champions with Shyvana being my go to champ. I don't like her because shes sexy, I like her because shes a flippin dragon. Where is my equal representation of half-human champions that turn into fantasy monsters?


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ShineBright

Junior Member

10-06-2012

I wanted to read this until i realized how long it was


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom Stoneice View Post
Ruthless Pantheon.

But, I do tend to agree with you. The only thing you're missing is that Riot is working on improving in this area.


And also on your discussion of skins for female champions all being stripper skins, you could say the same for costumes in real life as well. Look at Halloween costumes. When a man dresses up as a doctor, he goes for a realistic interpretation of what a doctor looks like (with a few exceptions of course), while when a woman wants to dress as a nurse she usually finds a ****ty nursette outfit that shows off as much of her body as possible.

How much of your conversation on gender should be focused on a video, and not on real life, if my question. This is a societal thing, not a video game thing. Video games reflect the culture they are born in. Not vice-versa.
Video games have the power to influence our society. Yes, society as a whole is the bigger problem, but these attitudes are enforced by the games we play.


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whouthink

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Oh god another gender equality thread.
Why is the female gender being portrayed correctly such a big issue? They're a business trying to sell to a primarily male audience.
This is a video game you know. Diversity for the sake of diversity is dumb.

As long as people like you have a problem with it, it will be a problem.

Edit: Not to mention there is already plenty of diversity, and Riot is trying to move towards your so called "equal representation" or whatever it is.


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Flana Scarlet

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrand View Post
You blame Riot? Riot is a company, a company wants to make money. How does a company make money? They provide a product and/or service to a market that is wanted or needed.

The market is everyone in the world who wants and is able to play video games, and will pay money to do so.

What sells? *** sells. Oldest profession in the world. It sells, and it sells well, especially to young men. If you have a guaranteed market for one product, and the opportunity cost for that product is a market that might possibly buy some of your stuff, it's an obvious choice about what to make. There is an opportunity cost here, they have only so many artists. They could hire more, but for what end? Would they generate that much more cash? It's an unknown, and companies are scared of unknowns.

You know what isn't unknown? The male libido. You see where this is going.

Don't blame Riot, blame the market.
To me, this just sounds like the easy way out. How do we know that the market wouldn't like more Diana's and Shyvana's? Add to that, you don't have to make (nor do I expect) EVERY female champion to be Kayle and have a bigass suit of armor. But I expect variety in skins, champions, and the way champions are presented. It's up to Riot to step up and do better, not blame the market for wanting Boobs McMage v. 20-million.


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Skellerkrunch

Member

10-06-2012

Stereotypes are everywhere.
Not saying that they should exist, but what do you expect all to do?
I currently have a friend playing league of legends, and is female.
She's friendly, and a very nice companion to play league of legends with.
But my point is, it's hard to persuade the whole portion of league of legends players to change their stereotypes.


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L2 Sentinel

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiryana View Post
So, I've been following this since last night and after reading through nearly every page I have yet to find an answer to some thing I was perplexed about from the original post.

From the last paragraph of the original post;
"I just donít understand why every female champion has to be young, thin, and attractive, but they arenít afraid to deviate from that mold when they are making a male champion."

My question is, what mold for male champions are people looking for? What is considered handsome/sexy to the overwhelming majority of players that are interested in that kind of thing?
I would love to see even a rough sketch of a male champion that the vast majority of female summoners would consider sexy that could even be used as a mold. ( Don't take this as a challenge, It's a genuine curiosity.)


I guess I see the champions splash art (because that's what people are really upset about) as a proportional thing. I mean really, there seems to be something for everyone in respect to how many people enjoy those champions. I personally enjoy the Semi-humanoid champions with Shyvana being my go to champ. I don't like her because shes sexy, I like her because shes a flippin dragon. Where is my equal representation of half-human champions that turn into fantasy monsters?
The ancient Greeks created a standard for male beauty that I think is still relevant today. The point is, they aren't afraid to make a male champion they know is not conventionally attractive. Gragas, Draven, and Zilean don't have to be bursting with charisma. But every female champion has a pretty face and a great figure. I just think it's generic and boring.


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Xengre

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
Yes, "detail."



That is your definition of detail. The only champions you even claim to look over 30 are Soraka, Miss Fortune, and Sivir, and I disagree on all three counts. You even added Lulu, a yordle, when I was very clear in stating yordles do not count. If you want to talk about yordles, fine. There are 3 female and 8 male. The males are still more diverse.

This topic of apparent age was about the human champions. You keep disregarding the rules of this discussion only when it's convenient to you. The human champions are actually evenly split. There are 28 of both sexes. They don't need to add for female champion, they need to add more female monsters.
My "detail" was only going as far as yours but providing reasonable unbiased views.

If you leave out Yordles and such Soraka is one of the oldest champions in the game... Miss Fortune definitely looks aged (though gracefully) and Sivir is likely at least 25+ but may be younger (though it seems unlikely). I stated quite a few more then those 3.

Quote:
This topic of apparent age was about the human champions. You keep disregarding the rules of this discussion only when it's convenient to you.
Wrong, I have already stated enough about humanoid age diversity as well. I simply added some very human like monsters to the list because you added Zilean to the list (who is no longer to be even considered a human) and because you were talking about AGE not human age in that section of your post.

There are at least 25 human (or closer to human then monster, arguably more but this will do for now) champions that are female vs 33 male (of same category roughly). It doesn't really matter though... since the topic is about gender sexualization and diversity not humanoid specific (this is while leaving out clear monster/yordle champs which should be difficult to claim as being sexualized for obvious reasons). In which case the contrast of male champ count vs female becomes far more prominent. However! If we go based on simply humanoid based diversity as you are now pointing out then based on your claim that the head count is pretty close and based on my list before showing how they are most definitely diverse in age based on lore and physical appearance in regards to whether or not such an appearance is primarily feasible in the real world... then sexuality is in fact EQUAL in League of Legends.


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Venom Stoneice

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauhel View Post
Video games how the power to influence our society. Yes, society as a whole is the bigger problem, but these attitudes are enforced by the games we play.
And, believe it or not, Riot is attempting to influence society positively. IronStylus specifically is doing a lot of work for gender-equal representation in the game. Have you noticed how the last few female champions released have been less overtly sexualized? Thank IronStylus for that.

I want to continue this discussion with you though; what do you think Riot should be doing to promote gender equality? I understand your idea of more sexualized male champion skins, but don't you feel like that might just contribute to the problem? Is there another, more constructive way for Riot to improve in this area?


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mogonk

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by whouthink View Post
They're a business trying to sell to a primarily male audience.
Has it occurred to you that the composition of their audience is a result of the choices they make, and not vice-versa?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whouthink View Post
This is a video game you know. Diversity for the sake of diversity is dumb.
Well. That's a well-reasoned argument if I ever heard one. Just call the position dumb and walk away.

Convincing.