The ultimate problem with the Honor system.

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NihilistProxy

Senior Member

10-06-2012

As a starting note, this is NOT a thread about how dumb ths system is and that nobody should listen to the message trying to be conveyed with it. This is a thread about the core problem of the system its self and why it simply will not work. I whole heartedly would love nothing more than to be able to log onto this game and not have a disire to burn through half a pack of smokes (dont waste your time comment about how bad smokeing is. Every single smoker in existance knows its bad and why its bad). I'm simply showing why this method is not the method that will fix the community.

From the minute this was annouced i had massive doubts about its effectivness. Everyone wanted to jump on the band wagon to start because, well "oh look something new" syndrom set in to alot of people. The same thing happens every single time a new champ come out. Everyone wants to try it and quickly will realise (alot already have) that it means nothing. Period.

What benifit do you get from having honor points? you get to say "oh well people like me" but this is LoL and anyone whos sheltered enough to truly believe that people legitimatly care about you. There is no perk to spending your honor points and theres no benifit to gaining honor points.

As a closing note, I doubt there will be much in the way of intelegible comments on this thread so if you're going to go on some white knight vigilanty rage, just get it out of your system and move the hell on.

On the other hand, if there was some reward to the system it would immediatly exploited. Riots business modle is you gain points either by playing the game or spending money and trade them for things you want. When you have that kind of system and then you add a system of points that ammount to less than brownie points (atleast with brownie points you actually gain the favor of your peers), no one will truly care. Once the newness is gone people will stop caring entirly.

If you had something to spend the poitns on, be it a small IP boost, some skin, w/e, player WILL exploit it... Period.

At its core, its a flawed system. It would require a community who already were good people with no alterior moritve, in which case this system wouldn't be nessesary. You are relying on people who are already flawed and set in their ways to adopt a system thats only aplicable to people who are fundimentaly good, sportsmen like, friendly people. There is no real way to change that without essentualy preforming a genocide on the community and keeping only the cream of the crop players (in terms of aditdue. This ofcourse can't be done because the vast majority of the community are generaly *******s and they are also the revenue for this game.


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NirvashTypeEND

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I'm sure Riot could figure this out while it was in development and felt the potential was worth the risk (none without rewards, pennies worth of rp with rewards)


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JuniorFisherman

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

There is a reward after a certain amount on honor, you get some kind of ribbons on your summoner icon, and in the loading screen


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pro4never

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

People need to try to understand the purpose of the system before they can hope to determine if it is/can be successful.


Riot has stated many times that Honor has NOTHING to do with making toxic players into angels. That is not it's focus and is not something it can do.


The purpose of the honor system (my understanding based on what Riot has explicitly said across multiple threads discussing it) is to identify and reward the positive members of the community as well as provide some level of motivation for fringe players to join in that top tier of helpful and positive players.


Tribunal = identify and punish toxic players
Honor = identify and reward positive players

Seems to me as though it's working just fine. Those who are nice are still going to be nice (and can be identified by both riot and their peers as such) and those who are borderline nice have that slight push to be more positive in their games. It's a small perk but it still exists. Look at all the people who want the fancy ranking badges even outside of the season rewards. Honor actually gives you MORE of a visual distinction than ELO does and I'd say that's actually a reasonably compelling use of the system to improve player behavior in the fringe regions where it can be easily modified through positive reinforcement.


Besides... they've already said that this is only stage one of the honor system and that there are MULTIPLE more things concerning it to be revealed.


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Ippiki Okami

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilistProxy View Post
As a starting note, this is NOT a thread about how dumb ths system is and that nobody should listen to the message trying to be conveyed with it. This is a thread about the core problem of the system its self and why it simply will not work. I whole heartedly would love nothing more than to be able to log onto this game and not have a disire to burn through half a pack of smokes (dont waste your time comment about how bad smokeing is. Every single smoker in existance knows its bad and why its bad). I'm simply showing why this method is not the method that will fix the community.

From the minute this was annouced i had massive doubts about its effectivness. Everyone wanted to jump on the band wagon to start because, well "oh look something new" syndrom set in to alot of people. The same thing happens every single time a new champ come out. Everyone wants to try it and quickly will realise (alot already have) that it means nothing. Period.

What benifit do you get from having honor points? you get to say "oh well people like me" but this is LoL and anyone whos sheltered enough to truly believe that people legitimatly care about you. There is no perk to spending your honor points and theres no benifit to gaining honor points.

As a closing note, I doubt there will be much in the way of intelegible comments on this thread so if you're going to go on some white knight vigilanty rage, just get it out of your system and move the hell on.

On the other hand, if there was some reward to the system it would immediatly exploited. Riots business modle is you gain points either by playing the game or spending money and trade them for things you want. When you have that kind of system and then you add a system of points that ammount to less than brownie points (atleast with brownie points you actually gain the favor of your peers), no one will truly care. Once the newness is gone people will stop caring entirly.

If you had something to spend the poitns on, be it a small IP boost, some skin, w/e, player WILL exploit it... Period.

At its core, its a flawed system. It would require a community who already were good people with no alterior moritve, in which case this system wouldn't be nessesary. You are relying on people who are already flawed and set in their ways to adopt a system thats only aplicable to people who are fundimentaly good, sportsmen like, friendly people. There is no real way to change that without essentualy preforming a genocide on the community and keeping only the cream of the crop players (in terms of aditdue. This ofcourse can't be done because the vast majority of the community are generaly *******s and they are also the revenue for this game.
-lights a smoke- you should quit.


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Zygen360

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

I'm assuming the rewards won't be that massive but it'll be something like a ribbon or maybe a profile picture who knows.
For now theres nothing yes but they did say there would be rewards and the such in the future.
They also said they have made it very hard to exploit. And that they have several percautions in place for people who try to exploit.

Overall its just a test for it to see how it works and once it gets enough information they're going to make necessary changes and then start to add new things to it.
Overall i'm excited. Regardless of how little faith you have.


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Reizuc

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I thought part of the point of the honor system was to pair you with people who were closer to you in terms of your overall honor level, therefore pairing more honorable and non-toxic players with others like themselves, and leaving ragers and toxic players to play with each other. Correct me if I'm wrong.

There doesn't need to be a tangible in-game benefit for something to be effective. I have NEVER asked for honor in any of my matches, and my honor is slowly, but surely, going up. I was in a match where we had one player who was raging at the rest of us, and he was also the one doing the least during fights, objectives, and team fights (on Morgana no less). Guess what? I tried to get the other 3 players to work with me to put up a good defense and I didn't rage or get angry. I got honored by 3 members of my team for being positive and trying to turn the game around. Morgana got reported by all 4 members of my team.

Honor is rewarding players who are good people and trying to be good players. THAT is the point of it. And hopefully it will mean playing with players like you. I HATE getting ragers, whiners, blamers, and toxic players. I would rather play on a losing team that was having fun and trying to win and having a good time, than a winning team with people constantly moaning and complaining about everyone else's playing except their own (which 9 times out of 10 is the worst on the team).


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NihilistProxy

Senior Member

10-06-2012

There comes a point when people start confusing being an "honorable player" and simply playing the game it was intended to be played. Not falling into the traps of the whiny pathetic trolls isnt being honorable, its simply playing. Honor would imply an exemplary attidute that is valuable to the game. Most people assume that any possitive reenforcment would be considered honorable, when in actuality that was supposed to be there to start with.

Dont get me wrong, I dont intend to downplay the value of positivity being an asset. Im saying that it should have been there from the get go. and a ribbon on your profile is still just something to say "oh look im a nice guy" and really has no meaning to anyone beyond that.

I like the idea of putting the honor system into the matchmakeing process so it isnt simply skill level but also enviorment that determines who you play with. If its implemented i think that would drasticly help the quality of life for the players.


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omegademan

Senior Member

10-06-2012

I like getting honorable opponent thumbs up so I don't antagonize the opponent as much when I am raping them. In fact, I normally keep quiet and just gg after game. Honor works for me I guess.


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NihilistProxy

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by omegademan View Post
I like getting honorable opponent thumbs up so I don't antagonize the opponent as much when I am raping them. In fact, I normally keep quiet and just gg after game. Honor works for me I guess.

Exactly, this is what im talking about. EVERYONE wants to try it right now. EVERYONE wants to be good dispite that less than an hour before they read the annoucement they came off a ragespree.

the problem is the longjevity of it. How long do you realisicly expect it to last before its just another part of the game?

every champ release is a big deal and slowly but surly falls from peoples mind.

dominion was this HUGE upraor and look how long that band wagon lasted.

everyone goes into tissy because of the patch notes.

all of those things slowly just fall away and everything goes pack to normal.

What is the length that people will care about THIS when it in reality doesnt directly effect the game?

How long will it be before everyone stops carring about honor points and it falls to the way side?


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