"Change is good." Where is my Republican champion, RIOT?

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FaerellG

Senior Member

10-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammerz View Post
What's even more concerning, is that is only part of the overall problem with American politics. The power no longer rests with the people (as it should - afterall, you guys DO call yourself a "democracy", right?), but rather with those who have very, very deep pockets. Occupy-Wall-Street strike any bells? No, they are not mindless "terrorists", or people whose sole intent is to bring anarchy to the world. Their assertion of the 99% vs 1% is a bit of an exaggeration, but describes the situation pretty damn well nonetheless.

The term "democracy" has gone through some rather implicit changes in its definitions over the past couple centuries.... might as well call it an oligarchy/plutarchy now.
Oooh, I had to look this one up again. According to Wikipedia, USA is a:
"the world's oldest surviving federation. It is a constitutional republic and representative democracy"

Federation being a union of partially self governing states

Constitutional Republic (aka Federal Republic). This is further emphasizes the division of state vs federal.

Representative Democracy is where it really differs. When someone says Democracy they usually imply direct Democracy which the USA is most definitely not. Representative Democracy is our retarded Electoral college system where we vote for people to vote for us.

I think CPGray explains pretty well what's wrong with the voting system and why the electoral college is screwed up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k


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Eledhan

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorHammerz View Post
What's even more concerning, is that is only part of the overall problem with American politics. The power no longer rests with the people (as it should - afterall, you guys DO call yourself a "democracy", right?), but rather with those who have very, very deep pockets. Occupy-Wall-Street strike any bells? No, they are not mindless "terrorists", or people whose sole intent is to bring anarchy to the world. Their assertion of the 99% vs 1% is a bit of an exaggeration, but describes the situation pretty damn well nonetheless.

The term "democracy" has gone through some rather implicit changes in its definitions over the past couple centuries.... might as well call it an oligarchy/plutarchy now.
The uninformed individuals who fell for the "Occupy" stuff are not the greatest example of the way a country should be run...

Pick ANY country in the world. ANY. COUNTRY.

The average citizen (read: majority of the population) is grossly under-qualified when compared to the level of education and experience necessary to deal with just their national economy. Not to mention their military, government regulations, and foreign policy.

The only way to get elected is with a majority vote. You have to win the votes of the above mentioned people in order to be elected (since they are the majority), and therefore, the only tactics you need to use is to say what they (the under-qualified) want to hear in order to obtain their vote.

In the USA, that means "I'll provide [insert monetary incentive here] for you", and BAM, you just won 47% of the vote...or at the very least, you have roughly 47% of the population more likely to vote for you over someone who says "We need to reduce government spending".

When 47% of Americans aren't paying taxes, yet receive the full benefits of living in the country, how can we expect anything other than what we are seeing regarding the stupidity on display in Washington? Whatever we have in Washington is a result of the wishes of the people...pretty simple.


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FaerellG

Senior Member

10-04-2012

You realize that 47% number is highly inaccurate and misleading right?

That 47% includes people like...
Senior citizens who are retired, children and students who have not (or cannot) enter the workforce yet.
Disabled veterans
etc.

And I totally agree with you. Average citizens are vastly under qualified to be put in office. Having to win the vote of the ignorant is a problem IMO. It leads to rule by demagogues (whatever that term is...demagoguery?). And that's the exact problem with the country right now.


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USS BUTTPEE

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
When 47% of Americans aren't paying taxes, yet receive the full benefits of living in the country, how can we expect anything other than what we are seeing regarding the stupidity on display in Washington? Whatever we have in Washington is a result of the wishes of the people...pretty simple.
That's...just factually incorrect. Especially if you consider sales tax, property tax, etc.


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ThorHammerz

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post

In the USA, that means "I'll provide [insert monetary incentive here] for you", and BAM, you just won 47% of the vote...or at the very least, you have roughly 47% of the population more likely to vote for you over someone who says "We need to reduce government spending".

When 47% of Americans aren't paying taxes, yet receive the full benefits of living in the country, how can we expect anything other than what we are seeing regarding the stupidity on display in Washington? Whatever we have in Washington is a result of the wishes of the people...pretty simple.
Perhaps you should check your facts a bit (well I don't blame you, since politicians often make their facts so generalizing that it often borders the inaccurate, thus causing misconceptions etc.). 47% percent of the U.S. population do not pay any federal income tax.

But within this group of 47%, there are the elderly/retired, unemployed (Note: this number also includes, children and students!). Note that this 47% also needs to pay general taxes such as sales taxes, payroll taxes (note: different from federal income tax).

On another somewhat unrelated note, when politicians claim to "create new jobs" and stimulate the economy to do so, how many of those jobs are actually enough to live on? (i.e., minimum wage, long hrs, etc).


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ThaWiseWolf

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaydence View Post
I challenge anyone to name 3 good things that Obama has done since he's taken presidency.

And you cant say capture bin laden, not only was that not his plan in place but he announced it to the world the moment it happened, and named the organization that did it (seal team 6), all for political gain. Gj, the lives of our service men are in even more danger now.

I really don't get this whole "He hasn't done anything" attitude from the lesser educated part of the country.

He can't cure cancer so you're voting for cancer, that makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Decoy View Post
Are we... dealing with a badass over here?
The last thing this thread needed was a meme.
Do you realize that a joke becomes a meme when it no longer is funny? Memes are where jokes go to die.


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cmss220

Junior Member

10-05-2012

Or how about a Democratic champion that taxes your ADC's farm and spends it on worthless items for everyone on the team? I'm thinking of you Obama Phone!


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ThorHammerz

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Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeddicuscs View Post
Or how about a Democratic champion that taxes your ADC's farm and spends it on worthless items for everyone on the team? I'm thinking of you Obama Phone!
Only the ADC? More like tax everyone BUT the adc, then spend it on mediocre (but could be so much better, if only the ADC was taxed...) items.

The amount of tax loopholes the U.S. has is pathetic. Capital gain from investments (which is what the rich make their money from) is hardly even taxed. Promises for a 'flat tax reduction'.... how much of that is it going to benefit the majority of the U.S.? How much is it going to benefit the super-rich?

On another note.... if you don't tax the population.... how are you going to run the damn government itself? The U.S. has .... how many trillions of dollars in deficit again? That isn't going to pay itself off through simple "budget cuts" (which by the way, is cutting the services that the not-so-privileged need to survive... y'know, a good chunk of the population?).


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FaerellG

Senior Member

10-05-2012

The fact that they're called "loopholes" should be an indication of what the intention of the law was.


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ThorHammerz

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Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
The fact that they're called "loopholes" should be an indication of what the intention of the law was.
Partially why it's so /facepalm-inducing. Well, to answer your point, not quite. Tax Breaks, are where they are intentionally allowing exemptions. Tax Loopholes, are more often associated with the laws that did not originally intend for the exemptions to occur (more often than not forming as a result of several regulations/laws that overlap to some degree/affecting each other)