Jungle is almost as bad as support now...

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JoeyMakesMagic

Senior Member

10-04-2012

decrease camp spawn time or increase camp gold

then maybe i can play nocturne again


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Waifu Support

Senior Member

10-04-2012

As an Avid jungler, I agree.

I don't really care that I don't make as much gold, but I really wish they would increase the experience gain. Having a level advantage is all I need as a jungler, and the jungle just doesn't give me enough exp to even keep up with solo lanes.


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LordFeint

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

I don't want to be 5 levels below everyone else, in addition to having to buy additional wards and feed half my jungle camps to greedy laners.


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Derivator

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Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verandriel View Post
Yet Shyvana, Lee Sin, and Udyr are top tier junglers.
Even then they all usually get Aegis and and early HoG, Udyr even gets a Philo Stone and then a Shurelya's.


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Bittlez

Senior Member

10-04-2012

I'm going to go ahead and throw this in there since the biggest argument is that these ITEM RELIANT junglers are "counter junglers"..

How do you counter jungle without the income for an oracle? Does this mean my ITEM RELIANT "counter jungler" is supposed to rush 3 gp10's(HoG, Philo, Avarice) in order to counter jungle with an oracle?

Hmmmm These counter-arguments are making zero sense and instead keep pounding in the reason jungle is **** right now :/


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Tiger Mum

Senior Member

10-05-2012

bumping for awareness


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Felza

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Senior Member

10-05-2012

No, the problem isn't the jungle, its the role itself. Naturally lanes are much more important than the jungle (due to turrets etc.) which puts Lanes in the priority and leaving jungle a more needed, but supportish role.

A jungler isn't there to attempt to farm up, but is there to destroy the balance of the lanes. by making a lane 2v1 nets you more advantage than anyone thinks.

Also, the reason why most people think junglers shouldn't take the kill is because junglers aren't direct;y "against" anyone. while in lane you are constantly facing this opponent. But i m personally fine with the junlger taking the kills.


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Felza

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Senior Member

10-05-2012

No, the problem isn't the jungle, its the role itself. Naturally lanes are much more important than the jungle (due to turrets etc.) which puts Lanes in the priority and leaving jungle a more needed, but supportish role.

A jungler isn't there to attempt to farm up, but is there to destroy the balance of the lanes. by making a lane 2v1 nets you more advantage than anyone thinks.

Also, the reason why most people think junglers shouldn't take the kill is because junglers aren't direct;y "against" anyone. while in lane you are constantly facing this opponent. But i m personally fine with the junlger taking the kills.


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Bittlez

Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felza View Post
No, the problem isn't the jungle, its the role itself. Naturally lanes are much more important than the jungle (due to turrets etc.) which puts Lanes in the priority and leaving jungle a more needed, but supportish role.

A jungler isn't there to attempt to farm up, but is there to destroy the balance of the lanes. by making a lane 2v1 nets you more advantage than anyone thinks.

Also, the reason why most people think junglers shouldn't take the kill is because junglers aren't direct;y "against" anyone. while in lane you are constantly facing this opponent. But i m personally fine with the junlger taking the kills.
I'm not... I can't... lolwut?

Jungler is directly against -everyone-. They are required to maintain constant presence whenever a lane is pushed past the halfway point and even sometimes before then. You're there to turn any changes in any lane into an advantage

If toplane TP's into bot for a 3 or 4man gank, your jungler who is at golems goes to top and takes top tower in response. Then proceeds to hover around bot waiting to try and push that tower down too and cover the duo who is now missing that safety net from the 4man gank(I'm assuming they took they tower during it.)

again.. lolwut? Turrets and lane-matchups are exactly WHY the jungler is so important. Including buffs and objective control on dragon/baron!

again..lolwut?


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Derivator

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Senior Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingPuffin View Post
I don't think that the tanky support jungler is the only way to win. Check out this list of highest win rate champs in platinum: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...e&range=weekly

Rengar
Fiddlesticks
Evelyn
Shaco
Skarner
Xin Zhao

Now, some of these get played in lane, but all those names are more than capable of jungling and dealing, ahem, tons of damage. Skarner is the only one you'd really consider a tanky initiator kind of jungler, and he's certainly not toothless on the damage front.

If you go over to the most popular jungler matchup chart at:
http://www.lolking.net/charts?region...p&range=weekly

We see a nice mix of roles getting commonly played:
Tanky Initiator - Skarner, Amumu, Maokai, Udyr, Nautilus
Assassin - Shaco, Evelyn, Nocturne, Jarvan IV
Invader/Duelist - Lee Sin, Shyvana, Dr. Mundo

I really don't feel bad about jungle balance right now. There are lots of viable options and you can play it in many playstyles.

One effect I think you're feeling is that top laners just love first picking squishy damage champions, at least at my elo, and that pushes the jungle player to grab something tanky because their team needs a tank. This is not really a game balance issue, it's an annoying community issue.
Except Rengar is a common top, Evenlyn is mostly played mid now, Fiddlestick is barely played and is probably a better support than jungler and skarner IS a tanky initiator. Nocturne isn't build as an assasin anymore, he is now another tanky initiator, same for jarvan.

The only real aggresive junglers, the kind of junglers you want to get kills with, are Shaco (only good in solo queue), Shyvana and Lee Sin.