Champions Alignment

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Shanock

Junior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geokhan View Post
That is not telling Shannok to not provide a counter argument, but I will cease my filling up of this thread.
Well, you pretty much repeated the points from your last post. My response would therefore entail more or less the same content as my last post, so I'll not spend time repeating myself. Judging from your response, I don't think you really understood my points, though, so I encourage you to re-read them. If not, we'll just have to agree to disagree.


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Purplee Dankk

Junior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly Ray View Post
Sorting out the alignments between champions (good, neutral & bad). Feel free to help me guys, since I'll probably be wrong with most of them.

Good
Akali, Anivia, Ashe, Caityln, Corki, Ezreal, Fiora, Galio, Garen, Heimerdinger, Irelia, Jarvan IV, Jayce, Karma, Kassadin, Kayle, Kennen, Lee Sin, Leona, Lulu, Lux, Master Yi, Nunu, Poppy, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Sona, Soraka, Taric, Teemo, Tristana, Tryndamere, Vayne, Volibear, Wukong, Xin Zhao, Ziggs

Neutral
Ahri, Alistar, Amumu, Blitzcrank, Evelynn, Gragas, Graves, Janna, Jax, Karthus, Malphite, Nasus, Olaf, Pantheon, Rengar, Renekton, Ryze, Sivir, Skarner, Twisted Fate, Udyr, Varus, Vladimir, Xerath, Yorick, Zilean

Bad
Brand, Cassiopeia, Cho'Gath, Darius, Diana, Dr. Mundo, Draven, Fiddlesticks, Katarina, Kog'Maw, Le Blanc, Malzahar, Morgana, Nocturne, Shaco, Singed, Sion, Swain, Syndra, Talon, Urgot, Veigar, Viktor, Warwick

Uncertain
Fizz, Gangplank, Hecarim, Maokai, Ms. Fortune, Mordekaiser, Nautilus, Nidalee, Orianna, Rammus, Riven, Sejuani, Trundle, Twitch, Zyra





Feel free to assist me with the ones I'm uncertain with.


well mordekaiser hecarim and eve are all bad. Riven as well


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LordHippoman

Senior Member

09-26-2012

And then the Noxus fanboys arrived and the thread collapsed.


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Iron Ambássador

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purplee Dankk View Post
well mordekaiser hecarim and eve are all bad. Riven as well
Riven is not "bad". She is neutral. She is trying to take Noxus back to it's old ways of strength and honor, away from deception and trickery and unfair methods such as the Melters that Singed commands.


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Geokhan

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Senior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanock View Post
Well, you pretty much repeated the points from your last post. My response would therefore entail more or less the same content as my last post, so I'll not spend time repeating myself. Judging from your response, I don't think you really understood my points, though, so I encourage you to re-read them. If not, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I understand Morgana is SUPPOSED to be a character we argue about. We all think we know who she is and will fight for our opinions. She is conflicting.

Kayle however is not evil. Lawful, yes. Evil, no. Wanting to control isn't evil. Our governments do it. Your family does it. Your friends do it. Your enemies do it. There is an extreme, but law and order does not make one evil. Hitler made a lot of laws, and yes he was evil. The Americans made a set of laws that forced the states under the rule of a central government, and I don't think this was evil. Control isn't evil. Abuseing your control is.

I respect your opinion, and I apologize if I made you upset.


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Orikan

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Can Cho'Gath or Kog'Maw (and Kha'Zix as well) even be given an alignment? Their thought processes and world view are so strange and alien, that I don't think human morality can really be applied to them.


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AskKarthus

Senior Member

09-26-2012

Brand is a force of nature, and therefore, neutral.


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Shanock

Junior Member

09-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geokhan View Post
Kayle however is not evil. Lawful, yes. Evil, no. Wanting to control isn't evil. Our governments do it. Your family does it. Your friends do it. Your enemies do it. There is an extreme, but law and order does not make one evil. Hitler made a lot of laws, and yes he was evil. The Americans made a set of laws that forced the states under the rule of a central government, and I don't think this was evil. Control isn't evil. Abuseing your control is.
Don't worry, I'm not upset. I do, however, think that this is not just a matter of opinion.

Imagine, for example, a person who is perfectly capable of taking care of himself, who is minding his own business and hurting noone, and does not wish to be controlled. Do you believe it is okay for you to march into his house and give him orders, or else you will smite him with your holy sword of flaming justice, as long as you have intentions that you believe are somehow good and noble? He'd consider you to be the greatest evil in his life. I'd agree with him.

Control itself is not evil, but rather the violation of his rights. He does not concede to this control, nor does he violate anyone else so he doesn't need to be controlled to protect others. To forcefully intrude into his peaceful and free life, wielding the threat of violence to impose one's own sense of law and order, that's Kayle. Her good intentions or sincere regret don't make her actions any less evil.

You'll have to be more specific about your examples of family, friends, government, enemies. Sometimes it's evil, sometimes not. The "control" of friends is not evil, since you can simply choose to walk away - you consent to it. Government is evil, but arguably a necessary one - the sacrifice it extracts from you against your will can sometimes be less than the evil that it might protect you against. Some people consent to government, so it's not evil against them. Family is a grey area, since government forces your interaction with them, it is not always voluntary, and interactions within families themselves can be good or bad. If you have enemies, either you or them (or both) must be doing something evil - if you weren't, you'd not do anything to hurt each other, and you wouldn't be enemies by any measurable standard. Rivals, as in sports, would not be evil, since you both voluntarily play the sport and agree to its rules.


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Canvasofgrey

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Senior Member

09-26-2012

I was expecting a more DnD nine alignment sort of deal with this. >_>

As for the Kayle arguement... It goes like this.

Kayle: Lawful Neutral.

Morgana: Chaotic Neutral.

Both are not good or evil, as both present neither object which is good nor evil in ideal. Kayle is an enforcer of government, while Morgana seeks to change that government. Government is lawful, as it is abided by it's own strict code of conduct. Morgana is Chaotic because she does not follow law that is set by the standards of people, not necessarily her own code of conduct.


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Eat Orange Be K

Senior Member

09-27-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly Ray View Post
Sorting out the alignments between champions (good, neutral & bad). Feel free to help me guys, since I'll probably be wrong with most of them.

Uncertain
Fizz, Gangplank, Hecarim, Maokai, Ms. Fortune, Mordekaiser, Nautilus, Nidalee, Orianna, Rammus, Riven, Sejuani, Trundle, Twitch, Zyra.
Gangplank would likely be Neutral. Although he's a pirate, he has a very prominent pull over Bilgewater, and is essentially in league for their benefit.

Maokai should likely be considered Evil. Despite his self-loathing and pitiable nature, his ultimate goals are pretty much right in line with Nocturnes: He hates the league and the summoners and actively competes to try to punish or destroy them from the inside. It seems the core difference even in the methods is that he chooses to stay and fight against the league from within for revenge/punishment, where Noct is forced into it and fights out of rebellion.

Orianna is Neutral (Evil leaning). As twisted as she is, from her judgement and VO work, it's obvious that she doesn't have a true concept of good or bad. In many cases, she seems like she'd be plainly evil, but she doesn't have the bad intentions. In essence, she'd likely be considered evil, but she's saved by the fact that she really doesn't understand good and evil on the same terms as other people do.

Riven is arguebly Good-Neutral. While she was on Noxus side, it was the noble aspects of Noxus that she valued, and the "evil" ones she rejected. She's even to a large degree repentant about a lot of her past, which is another trait usually reserved only for good characters.

Trundle is arguably Messianic level good. The fact that his backstory revolves around self-sacrifice and taking on fatalistic curse, and voluntarily submitting himself to some truly over-the-top body horror already should put his very nature at sterling.