Why You Lost (A Guide to Winning)

123456 ... 9
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Devious Rogue

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethadind View Post
I am by no means a pro support, however from my own experience and from what I've read, you need to get a feel for your carry. If he doesn't communicate in q, then he likely won't communicate in game, you're better off getting a safe support like soraka or alistar or taric that can both heal and poke or harass safely. If they tell you they're fairly aggressive go Leona or Blitz (or Alistar) as a kill-lane is their mindset, you should work with that. I see Lulu and Janna as sort of bot-lane counters depending on picks, and are situational, I don't use them actually, so I can't really give you that much help.

The main point I wanted to get across is stop bashing the support, they do a hell of a lot more than people think they do.
Janna's hard to play well, but she's the mother of all Peelers... dat Ult makes her a must have against heavy closer teams and teams with champs like Fiddles and Kennen. Basically Blitz would be the ultimate offensive support, while Janna's the ultimate defensive support.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FaerellG

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Lol, I'm really loving how you're developing as a player.

2 things I wanted to say.
1. Mood is so goddamned important.
I really wish I had more time to play. Intensive job and a long commute means I get home around 9pm so I get to play 2-3 games if I'm lucky. And I'm not always in a good mood to play, so while my games are low, I've been on a nice ranked winning streak. But yeah. If you play in a crappy mood, you play crappy.

2. Pushing down a tower too early.
At higher levels of play (starting around 1300) it is actually possible to destroy a lane too early. I used to think the same way you did, but then after lots of games of testing it out and trial/error, I started to realize that you can destroy a tower too early. Destroying the tower early is a trade off you see.

Yes, they lose control of that section of the jungle, but your team needs to be able to capitalize on it. If your team is not built for or coordinated enough to invade and support your jungler on invasions, then that "loss of control" doesn't do much.

Additionally, what this allows is for the opposing AD to "freeze" the lane back by their inner tower so that you've lost a lane to farm from.
see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTU3qzXnCGI
SivHD does a good job explaining the advantage this gives to the lane. FYI, it works on both top and bot.

The other issue is that a tower down means roaming because there's a longer distance between towers for the minions to travel. That means more time to leave lane and gank before your tower is threatened. Some champions don't have good gank potential until later on in the game, so if you destroy a tower before you have good gank potential, then you've got some champions being put in ineffective positions.
For example:
As an AD carry, you need AD to contribute damage (burst or sustained, but burst preferably) to a gank. If you pushed down the tower before you can farm up your first big ticket item or some medley of good offense, then you'll be sitting around not doing much for awhile.

So, yes, it is possible to shove down the turret too early. It USUALLY doesn't apply, but sometimes it does.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lethadind

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Thanks for the input guys, updated the guide.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lethadind

Senior Member

09-22-2012

Added two new topics, check 'em out!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dante49

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

09-23-2012

I really like the guide. I think you made some great points. One thing I think it is important for you to address is the one you've mentioned for future expansion: "Not Dying"

Not Dying is extremely important, yet people just don't realize the importance of it. Want to know one of the differences between Pro's and those who think themselves stuck in "Elo Hell"? The number of deaths in the games. Look at any pro games, count the total deaths by both teams combined. It is RARE for that number to go over 50. However, in many regular ranked que games, I regularly see games that sometime go to a combined 100 deaths or me sometimes even.

Pros don't die. Why do you think it is so exciting when a pro makes a clutch play in a high level game? Because, it takes some real skill to force a kill on pros, or a drastic mistake. Those kills are thus very important and valuable. But in lower level play so many people make a huge emphasis on getting kills, that they sometimes don't realize that by working so hard for kills they lose cs and sometimes trade a death or two in return. Trades are BAD. 90% of the time you don't want to trade kills. This is because you should always assume that your opponents will make better use of the money than you will. Pushing yourself into situations where you HAVE to get a kill because you're guaranteed to die, is bad, because best case you get a trade, and worst case your opponent essentially wins for nothing.

When people make the shift from getting kills to killing towers and cs'ing like you've suggested, then they'll drastically improve. Only those champions that NEED kills to snowball shoudl be taking risks to get kills and even then you know they know the most of anyone how important it is not to give up kills.

If you're dead you not only can't cs, but you can't get experience and your opponents will. Death loses the games and makes losses worse most of the time.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lethadind

Senior Member

09-23-2012

Well. I knew I should have reserved a post or two. I've reached my character limit and just wasted a good portion of my last hour typing up another addition, only to have to cancel it. Sigh. I'm debating whether to start a whole new thread completely or to leave this up, start another thread, and have it be a continuation.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Dante49

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

09-23-2012

Just start a new one and reserve like 3 extra spots.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MeltedWater

Senior Member

09-24-2012

I have something to add to something you said, and something I disagree with.

As far as the auto-attacking thing goes...I've saw people playing certain champs (think Sivir) that refuse to help with a kill. Why? "My skills are on cooldown" or "No mana"...when, if they would've just auto-attacked, the enemy would've been dead.

Oh something else to add to that: To AD Carries: If your support is trying to set you up with a kill, trust them! They know how much mana you have. They know if your skills are on cooldown. They took that in consideration. It's all about teamwork, and if you can't be bothered to trust your teammate then the game's well on the path to being lost.

And the thing I disagree with you: The AD carry shouldn't be buying many wards, and at the beginning of the game, none at all. It's their job to spend their gold on DPS items, and if they waste too much money on wards they can't do that. If the support isn't warding, and the carry has to, then that means the carry is already behind. It's better for them to talk to the support and get them to ward than acctually buy wards themselves. Heck, when I (as a support) see my carry buying wards in the laning phase, I tell them to please stop; and that I have wards covered. Then I say I'm sorry if I'm not warding well enough for their taste, and ask them where they'd like me to ward. If I have to buy more wards to make them feel safe and it puts off my build, so be it. Their build is more important.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FaerellG

Senior Member

09-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeltedWater View Post
And the thing I disagree with you: The AD carry shouldn't be buying many wards, and at the beginning of the game, none at all. It's their job to spend their gold on DPS items, and if they waste too much money on wards they can't do that. If the support isn't warding, and the carry has to, then that means the carry is already behind. It's better for them to talk to the support and get them to ward than acctually buy wards themselves. Heck, when I (as a support) see my carry buying wards in the laning phase, I tell them to please stop; and that I have wards covered. Then I say I'm sorry if I'm not warding well enough for their taste, and ask them where they'd like me to ward. If I have to buy more wards to make them feel safe and it puts off my build, so be it. Their build is more important.
Unless your support is a total boss, it's worth it to have 1 ward on you.
I'm not saying always, but as AD, when you back and you see that your support is out of wards, just grab one (if you have the spare money).

I mean, I started Boots + 3HP.
And I have to back. I have enough for BF sword, Vamp scepter and I have 200 gold left over.
I see my support doesn't have wards left, I buy 1...maybe 2.

It's not an issue of my support player being inadequate, it's an issue of fluidness of gameplay. There might be that moment where you don't have coverage, so you gotta get it covered while your support is back and buying. That's a solid 30 seconds or so where you could be out vision.

Additionally, I've run up against players who will zone the support to prevent them from warding. Want to drop a ward in river? Too bad, Leona/Corki is always in position to jump your support the moment they go to ward. The AD has more attack range and can time their abilities and movement better. It's the same reason that the AD takes Heal rather than the support. Because the AD knows when he needs it, and they can press that "oh ****" button when they need it rather than having to let someone else control it. Same principle. Some times, it's just really hard for the support to get to the correct position to ward against an aggressive lane.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

상자상자상자

Senior Member

09-24-2012

What do when I jungle and feed our bot lane 6 kills and the support takes four of them?

Then carry proceeds to buy 2 BF swords


123456 ... 9